What are the main differences between the OPC and the PCA? What keeps two presbyterian denominations who hold to the WCF from joining?

Thanks,
Daniel

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Daniel Franzen
Church Creek Presbyterian (PCA)
Charleston, SC

Older PB threads here and here.

From the OPC.

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Tom Albrecht
Member, Covenant URCNA, New Holland, PA.

"I'm not a famous man. I'm just a simple country doctor with horse sense."



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There are certainly many congregations and officers within the PCA which could comfortably fit into the narrower doctrinal and worship boundaries of the OPC. There are some OP congregations and officers which would find themselves more comfortable within the broader boundaries of the PCA.

As an OP minister, if reunion were to be proposed today, I’d vote against it unless,

1) The understanding of subscription to the confessional standards were more clearly defined and enforced than is currently done within some presbyteries of the PCA.

2) There was common agreement on the degree of uniformity required by the Directory of Worship and application of the Regulative Principle of Worship.

3) The form of government called for a delegated general assembly with adequate time for discussion of issues and supervision of he denominational bureaucracy.

Both denominations are too broad in their understanding of subscription, and worship practices. One can not unreservedly recommend a congregation of either denomination to a moving family without checking it out first. Neither denomination could currently establish a denominational seminary or college because we are both too broad to agree on common goals for such an institution.

American Presbyterianism has been in constant churn and realignment since the first presbytery was formed in 1706. I expect this churn and realignment to continue. I rejoice in what I share in common with my PCA brothers and those of other confessional Presbyterian affiliations, and strive to keep lines of communication open across denominational lines.

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Glenn Ferrell
Pastor, Sovereign Redeemer Presbyterian Church
OPC
Boise, Idaho

What about RPCUS? Are they too theonomic to join with PCA/OPC?

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*Watches from the sidelines in the ARP*

Honestly, I'd prefer the orthodox Presbyterian denominations stay split.

If the denominations were joined, then heresey would be able to traverse across congregations more rapidly. With things as they are now, only the PCA is suffering from the FV, while the ARP and, seemingly the OPC, seems to suffer no problems. If we were joined, I think there would be a greater propensity for widespread heresey. As it stands, heresey must traverse several barriers and is unlike the infiltrate ALL of the orthodox Presbyterian denominations. At least this way, while we might be seperate in name, at any one time one of us will at least, probably, uphold orthodoxy if the others should fall victim to heresey.

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Andrew DeShazo, Deacon
Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Memphis, TN
"Send Zenas the lawyer and Apollos on their journey with haste, that they may lack nothing." -Titus 3:13
http://foolish-wisdom.blogspot.com/

This is untrue. All one has to do to spread bad theology into their denomination is to pick up a book and start reading without discernment.

The OPC has not been exempt from the influence of FV, and possibly even more problematic for some of their congregations are Norman Shepherd's NPP influenced views of covenant theology. These men may not be loud, but they are there, and I have spoken with some of them in the past, much to my dismay.

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Adam J. Myer
Pastor
Trinity Reformed Presbyterian Chapel
Pistol River, Oregon

I'm not saying bad theology is unable to take root, I'm saying if there is one denomination, then heresey has to take root in only one place. Presently, it must take root in many places in order to affect the entirety of orthodox Presbyterianism.

I would agree with Glenn's post. Especially on government. How the OPC and PCA GA's are handled are completely opposite. I would say that the PCA GA is more like a convention. Also, all you have to do is look at the PCA BCO and the OPC BCO. Its like night and day.

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~Wayne Wylie~
Member, Mid Cities Presbyterian Church (OPC)
Ruling Elder - Inactive
http://www.mcopc.org
Bedford, TX

Job 28:28 - And unto man he said, Behold, the fear of the Lord, that is wisdom; and to depart from evil is understanding.

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Mr. Ferrell states the differences very well. I've been a member of excellent churches in both denominations and can offer one additional insight, if I may. It seems to me that some (certainly not all) of the weaker churches in the PCA were ones that pulled out of the old PCUS. In many cases, it appears that congregations were moving away from specific problems with the mainline churches, but they weren't moving toward a solidly reformed theological position.

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JWithnell
Member Bethel OPC
Virginia

I agree, FV has had its influence within the OPC. I hope our presbyteries are more vigilant now.

I favor Reformed and Presbyterian unity in God’s timing, but not for the sake of a larger and more diverse ecclesiastical organization. Something must be gained in the bargain, greater fidelity to the confessions, greater adherence to the Regulative Principle in practice- worship and polity, greater faithfulness in proclaiming the gospel.

The time is not right for PCA and OPC unification. That said, there are PCA congregations I could serve. Being a Southerner, culturally I probably fit there (especially in the mid-South) better than in the OPC in Idaho. However, in the PCA, I’d be more frustrated with GA level activities. The two OP assemblies I’ve attended, I’ve left with great satisfaction and thanksgiving for the diligence and wisdom with which the work of Christ’s Church has been done. I don’t see how the PCA can supervise their bureaucracies with their large assembly meeting for so short a time and so little of that for real debate. The OPC demonstrates a delegated assembly does not necessarily lead to denominational apostasy as many PCA folk experienced in the former PCUS and UPCUSA.

And about three pounds heavier.

The OPC BCO is also in a very nice clothbound book. Quite convenient and well-conceived.

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church

Student of Theology
Pittsburgh Theological Seminary
Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary
My Blog

For instance...?

An the PCA would go broke as frequently the BCO is modified and a new clothbound book would be needed.

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Soli Deo Gloria

John Schultz
Member, Riveroaks Reformed Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Germantown, TN

"The reason why we worship God in a slight way is because we do not see God in His glory"
Jeremiah Burroughs

1. For instance the OPC DoW is Constitutional while only 2 sections of the PCA DoW are.
2. The OPC does not feel that they need to add or delete parts of their BCO virtually every GA.
3. You need a loose leaf binder for the PCA BCO (see 2 above).

The original Westminster Form of Presbyterian Church Government sought to say only what could be supported by Scripture. Note the proof texts in the original, compared to the relatively minimal text of the Form of Government itself. The Regulative Principle applied to polity as much as doctrine and worship.

In this, both the OPC and PCA say more than they need to in their Form of Government.

Certainly, procedures will need to be codified to achieve uniformity in the application of Biblical norms over time. But, a distinction needs to be made between what is derived implicitly and by good and necessary consequence from Scripture and what is circumstantial for good order. It is interesting how the Scottish Free Churches do this. I have here a copy of The Practice of the Free Church of Scotland in her Several Courts (1995 edition).

A friend of mine commented several years ago, “The decline of a denomination begins with a loose leaf Book of Order.” I do appreciate the cloth bound BOCO of he OPC.

If our polity is derived from Scripture, we should have most things about right by now, and rarely need to change it.

I don't want to hear another criticism of independency!

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B.B.
Elder
GBC

Deo volente

In your dreams!!!