The "Marks" of a Rick Warren Church

blhowes · #1 (**permalink**) 04-13-2008, 07:17 PM

We visited a church for the first time this morning. The people who led the music up front were very talented, but not what I'm use to or necessarily comfortable with during a worship service. Bending of guitar strings is neat and demonstrates talent, but...

I was very glad when they finally got to that part of the service where the sermon was preached. I enjoyed the preaching very much. I had listened to 2 of his sermons last night, so I knew what to expect (which made me want to check out the church).

They had coffee available after the service, (

) which of course was nice. I went over to a visitor's table they had set up to find out more about the church. I introduced myself, and after a few moments the person offered me a book and asked if I'd heard of it - it was Tony Warren's book about the 40 days of whatever. I told her I had. It was nice of her to offer me the book,but I thanked her and let her keep it.

I've never read the book before, I suppose I should have accepted it and read it, but my reading time is limited and the reviews I've read haven't been that good. Anyway, for those who have read his book, what are the marks (positive and negaive) of a church that follows the teachings in Rick Warren's book? If you went to a church and Rick Warren or his book weren't even mentioned, what aspects of the church would nevertheless make you wonder if that church followed his teachings?

Davidius · #2 (**permalink**) 04-13-2008, 07:23 PM

Tony Warren? Do you mean Rick? You said Rick in the thread title.

blhowes · #3 (**permalink**) 04-13-2008, 07:27 PM

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Originally Posted by Davidius

Tony Warren? Do you mean Rick? You said Rick in the thread title.

Thanks. Corrected.

North Jersey Baptist · #4 (**permalink**) 04-13-2008, 07:56 PM

Bob, are their no confessional Baptist churches in the Framingham area?

North Jersey Baptist · #5 (**permalink**) 04-13-2008, 07:59 PM

Bob,

I don't know if these will help.

Reformed Baptist Church

Reformed Baptist Church Directory

9Marks Church Search

joshua · #6 (**permalink**) 04-13-2008, 08:16 PM

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Originally Posted by blhowes

Anyway, for those who have read his book, what are the marks (positive and negative) of a church that follows the teachings in Rick Warren's book?

In my opinion, any good that might possibly come of it is eclipsed by the garbage found therein.

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If you went to a church and Rick Warren or his book weren't even mentioned, what aspects of the church would nevertheless make you wonder if that church followed his teachings?

I don't think Warren's model is anything particularly new. Wasn't it Willow Creek before that?

Anyway, dunno if you care, but here's what I observed about it 4 years ago:

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It's a passing faddish load of garbage.

From the Purpose Driven Life Website:

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I continue on my quest to know more about myself - about who God wants me to be - and I truly believe this book has awaken me to this reality.

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My involvement with exploring this book "The Purpose Driven Life" has been revolutionary in my life.

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As a result of reading this book, learning more about it in a series of Sunday morning services, doing a self-study 40 days devotional , taking a weekly bible study on it - I came to realize even more that that I was not alone

So, they didn't learn more about the Bible, they learned more about the book, did a "40 Days" devotional, took a "weekly bible study" not on the Bible, but the 40 Days of Purpose!

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I began to feel something special happening "within" me....

Which, within itself, is not necessarily wrong, but...in the context of a man-written book?

The above quotes were from Kathy Hay on the site

From others:

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"This book has transformed me! Thank you so much! I have been going to a very large church and have been a listener of Gods word. But due to this book I have become a participant of the Church! I am now volunteering and will soon join ths Church! I cannot put this book down! I use at least some chapters of it daily. I have also given a copy to a friend who is struggling with her relationship with the Lord. She is also being transformed! Again thank you!"

Doris Taylor

The book transformed her. Due to the book she became active at the church. She uses at least some chapters of it daily. Her friend is also being transformed by the book.

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I began attending a local church, got involved in a bible study and heard about this bible series.

I must say it has turned my life completely around.

Don Gihring

Bible series? Blah blah blah

and later in response to someone's incredulity that I criticized the book:

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Firstly, let me just say that Rick Warren is very inconsistent in his book. I've done my best to not misrepresent him or what he's written; although, I can't say that I've quoted him in context, because there seems to be no context. Just a lot of inconsistency. One moment he's speaking about your purpose that God has for you, and it's in a favorable manner, then in another moment he's introducing you to Christ. The inconsistency is found in trying to decipher who is audience is. Lost people, saved people, or both? There's nothing wrong with it being both, except that Warren writes things that can only apply to believers...Anyway

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What bad not completely biblical definition of God are you referring to? Please cite page numbers please.

For beginners:

Ch.1: On page 17 Warren says, "You were born by his purpose and for his purpose."

To this, I heartily agree. It is ABSOLUTELY correct! Yet, on page 19 Warren writes, "You could reach all your personal goals, becoming a raving success by the world's standard, and still miss the purposes for which God created you." Now, if we were born by God's purpose, and for His purpose, certainly God would see that purpose through and through. I mean, Warren seems to imply that we can thwart God's purpose, whether it be to harden us, or make us vessels of mercy.

P.21, "...you don't get to choose your purpose."

Amen and Amen. God does. And if He does, then He'll see your purpose through. There is no "missing" it.

In chapter 2, particularly pages 24-25, Warren goes into what he thinks was God's motivation in creating us. Again, who's the audience? Lost? Saved? Both? He should clarify for contextual purposes. on page 24 he writes, "God's motive for creating you was his love." And that is partially true (if you're writing to the elect), but not complete. God's motivation for loving you was His glory. That is His motivation. His glory and good pleasure, etc. etc. "I am the Lord! That is my name. I will not give my glory to another, nor share my praise with idols."--Isaiah 42:8. Notice Warren never lays out a biblical definition of love to the reader. Instead he leaves the reader to their own presuppositions that God's love is equal to all etc. etc. P. 25, "But he wanted to make you in order to express his love." No, it was for His glory. That's not COMPLETE.

P.28, "When Cain sinned, his guilt disconnected him from God's presence." So...it was Cain's guilt that kept him from God, not his sin? Hogwash!

P.30, "Nothing matters more than knowing God's purposes for your life..."
Job never found out why God shattered his health, wealth, and family. In fact, when Job asked God basically told Job it was none of his business, because He was God. Not knowing the purpose of his pain, didn't keep Job from serving God effectively enough that his life is in the pages of the Holy Writ.

As an aside, I'd like to list some points from the section labeled, "The Benefits of Purpose-Driven Living" (My Emphasis Added)

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1.Knowing your purpose gives meaning to your life.

2.Knowing your purpose simplifies your life.

3.Knowing your purpose focuses your life.

4.Knowing your purpose motivated your life.

5.Knowing your purpose prepares you for eternity.

Where is it that "knowing your purpose" helps you to hate your sin more and more and then to mortify the flesh? Helps you to grow in grace and knowledge of the Lord Jesus Christ? To share the no-watered-down gospel that Christ turned many away with?

P. 34, "From the Bible we can surmise that God will ask us two crucial questions: First, 'What did you do with my Son, Jesus Christ?' God won't ask about your religious background or doctrinal views. The only thing that will matter is,did you accept what Jesus did for you and did you learn to love and trust him?"

Maybe he won't ask about religious backgrounds, but I assure you that God is NOT disinterested in doctrine. He wrote the doctrines in Scripture. We are to hold them dearly. In fact, the Great Commission says we're to teach them to all that are disciples.

There are many other instances such as those found above, but I find it (as you probably will as well) fruitless to research every one. Even if it is, I don't want to. I'm tired of reading the stuff.

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Her testimony was about how GOD uses the 40 Days to change peoples lives.

God uses everything and anything to bring people to certain points, but He uses His Holy Spirit through the Scriptures to change lives.

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And BTW the book drips with Biblical passages.

Yep...but where's the context? For example. In the literature that's passed out for the simulcast, Warren quotes Proverbs 16:4...but only the first part. Here's the verse,

"The Lord has made everything for its purpose, even the wicked for the day of trouble."

Warren conveniently cuts off, "even the wicked for the day of trouble." How palatable.

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Are you suggesting that God cannot work in ways we don't particularly like, and please, I know that God cannot contadict His own word,so don't go there.

So you prefer to make a statement but I can't reply to it because you say, "so don't go there" I go to Scripture. I love the ways God works. And they're found in Scripture, through Scripture. God doesn't work BEYOND what's revealed in Scripture...that's how Christians determine if something is of God. We are to "test the spirits". With what should we test it? Our emotions? Our intellect? No. The Bible.

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I have never departed from these great truths,i.e., the Sovereignty of God, His Electing Grace,etc. So I am your Brother in Faith and in Christ,

Welcome to the Puritan Board!

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I just simply disagree with you on this matter, I to seek only what brings Glory to God.

Ok. Bring glory to God, not a 40-Day formula that will "change your life".