In light of the discussion currently occurring in the PCA I though I would be prudent in making certain the policy according to the Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church's Book of Church Order.

Link to PDF of BCO

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church, Sewickley, PA
Student of Theology Pittsburgh Theological Seminary & Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

“If the Church could be aroused to a deeper sense of the glory that awaits her, she would enter with a warmer spirit into the struggles that are before her.”-- J.H. Thornwell

Thanks!

This is a practical, orthodox, pastoral, & confessional response to this issue. IMHO.

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

*Bump*

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church, Sewickley, PA
Student of Theology Pittsburgh Theological Seminary & Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

“If the Church could be aroused to a deeper sense of the glory that awaits her, she would enter with a warmer spirit into the struggles that are before her.”-- J.H. Thornwell

What happens when an ordained deaconess in one ARP church transfers to another ARP church that feels women cannot be so ordained?

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HaigLaw, ruling elder
Grace PCA, Shreveport, LA
http://www.xanga.com/HaigLaw

Good Question. I'll see what I can find out.

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church, Sewickley, PA
Student of Theology Pittsburgh Theological Seminary & Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

“If the Church could be aroused to a deeper sense of the glory that awaits her, she would enter with a warmer spirit into the struggles that are before her.”-- J.H. Thornwell

Wrong thread

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church, Sewickley, PA
Student of Theology Pittsburgh Theological Seminary & Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

“If the Church could be aroused to a deeper sense of the glory that awaits her, she would enter with a warmer spirit into the struggles that are before her.”-- J.H. Thornwell

I can appreciate the spirit of this approach being something along the lines of unity in essentials, liberty in nonessentials, and charity in all things.

The difficulty I have with this is that something as fundamental as qualification for high church office being left to a "local option." We have in view here an elected, ordained, authoritative office with explicit qualifications in God's Word. Particularly in Reformed and Presbyterian circles, church government is important.

It seems pragmatism (i.e. a practical response) is grounded on what seems most expedient in the circumstances rather than determining God's will.

While I am aware the ARP has an admirable long and steady history of biblical faithfulness, my understanding is that most of her history has been without a "local option" on this doctrine.

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Scott
PCA
North Carolina

Soli Deo Gloria

It is also worth noting that in my experience Deaconesses are not allowed to chair the Board or have any authoritative role.

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church, Sewickley, PA
Student of Theology Pittsburgh Theological Seminary & Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

“If the Church could be aroused to a deeper sense of the glory that awaits her, she would enter with a warmer spirit into the struggles that are before her.”-- J.H. Thornwell

I'm aware there has been some discussion about the definition and whether the office of Deacon "has authority."

As I understand it, the office of Deacon does have authority in the biblical sense of church governance. It is often described alongside Elder in the Scripture. My best understanding of this is that a Deacon has administrative authority (to oversee mercy ministry, to develope a spirit of liberality in the congregation regarding giving, to oversee stewardship of the property, etc.).

Perhaps an analogy would be a board of directors are ultimately responsible for strategic direction of a company (somewhat like Elders), whereas chief executive officers have administrative authority (somewhat like Deacons). One might say employees (somewhat like church members) have some authority, more like task authority, but it is overseen by management which is governed by the board of directors.

I think Scripture sets out something like this for authority- certainly with lots of "task authority" for women and men (e.g. involvement in service, mercy ministry, diaconal ministry) but under the higher levels of authority (and accountability) of Deacons and Elders. Every part is essential for the whole, it's not a question of "worth" but more a question of function.

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Scott
PCA
North Carolina

Soli Deo Gloria

Interesting. Since the office of deacon (according to some) has no authority, I wonder why an ARP church would stop a deaconess from doing anything a deacon does.

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Fredrick T. Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
Christ Church Blog

"The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

(By the way do any of the other ARP's know when exactly the ARP adopted Deaconesses?)

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church, Sewickley, PA
Student of Theology Pittsburgh Theological Seminary & Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

“If the Church could be aroused to a deeper sense of the glory that awaits her, she would enter with a warmer spirit into the struggles that are before her.”-- J.H. Thornwell

Good question. I am trying to ascertain that as we speak from my more knowledgeable ARP contacts.

At least in my local congregation we have what they call "Deacon-Trustees" and "Caretaker-Deacons". The Male Deacons are the former and the Deaconess is the later.

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church, Sewickley, PA
Student of Theology Pittsburgh Theological Seminary & Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary

“If the Church could be aroused to a deeper sense of the glory that awaits her, she would enter with a warmer spirit into the struggles that are before her.”-- J.H. Thornwell

Because the scripture teaches that women aught not to rule over men.

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

The same thing thet happens when an elder or deacon transfers to an other congregation. They are recieved as members.

The office is exercised locally. Just as a man may be a suitable deacon/elder in one congregation & yet never be nominated to the same office in an other congregation, so it would be with a deaconess. She would never be nominated to that office in the new congregation.

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

Oh. So the office of deacon is one of some authority, then, in your view? Because if deacons have no authority, then it would not matter if a man or a woman was the chairman of that Board.

But then again, if the office of deacon had authority, then women should not be deacons. Good luck eating your cake, and then having it also.

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Fredrick T. Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
Christ Church Blog

"The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

The office of deacon is an office of service.

Deacons also have "authority" over some areas. Authority over the lawn maintenance, for example. Or, authority over distribution of the food pantry, for an other example. In some cases they also have "authority" over crisis pregnancy ministries, or counseling young women in other circumstances.

In some cases the deacons will have "authority" of a different type. When chairing meetings or serving on (some) boards. In these cases the office includes *some* degree of authority over men & in those cases women do not (ordinarily) serve.

I am now going to eat a piece of cake.

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB

So in every one of the cases you mention, a woman deacon, including one who (non-ordinarily) serves in authority has authority over men, in direct contradiction of 1 Timothy 2:12. What if the head of the pregnancy help center was a man (as is usually the case for board members)?

Does your translation of 1 Timothy 2:12 say, "not to have authority over men, except in non-ordinary cases, and cases of service" ?

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Fredrick T. Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
Christ Church Blog

"The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

Sorry, bro Fred, but I was busy eating cake...

Did I understand your position to be that when you wife serves you dinner she has "authority" over you?

Or, if she hires the 16 year old neighborhood boy to mow the lawn she is "exercising authority over a man"?

And is she thus in violation of 1 Tim 2:12?

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Kevin Rogers
Sovereign Community Church, PCA
Moncton NB