Many of my Presbyterian friends go by 'pastor' (the ones that are pastors, of course). Many of my Dutch Reformed friends go by Reverend. Of course, there is some cross-over.

My question:

Is the term 'reverend' biblical to call a man- even an ordained man? Or is pastor more in line with the Scriptures?

(For the record: My Presbyterian minister goes by Reverend, not Pastor... so it is not a preference question, but a serious one.)

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Pastor Nathan Eshelman, Los Angeles, CA
Reformed Presbyterian Church
PRESBYTERIAN THOUGHTS
Los Angeles Reformed Presbyterian Church
RPCLA Sermons Online
Puritan Reformed Seminary

I refer to our pastor as pastor, but when addressing an envelope to him, his title would be Reverend.

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Janis
Christ Church ARP, NC
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us in Christ with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places, even as he chose us in him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before him. In love he predestined us for adoption as sons through Jesus Christ, according to the purpose of his will, to the praise of his glorious grace, with which he has blessed us in the Beloved." Eph. 1:3-6 ESV

Pastor for me, dont care for anyone other than God to be called Reverend

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David
Pastor
Southern Baptist
Missouri
The Cave

Janis' point is well stated. Reverend is more of a title. Most folks address me as "pastor", but I sign things with "Rev."

The framers of the WCF were referred to as "Divines." That troubled me at first, but I got over it. Reverend doesn't sound nearly so bad next to "divine"!

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Tim Phillips
Pastor, Midlane Park Presbyterian Church (ARP)
Louisville, KY
Husband of Scottish Lass
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"Wherever the gospel is preached, it is as if God Himself came into the midst of us." ~ John Calvin

The title of "Rev."
Does "reverent" comes from reverence ?????

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Andrew

That is for sure. I was discussing the Dutch 'dominae' (or however the Dutch spell it) with a friend saying how it makes me a little vomit-ish when people use that title, but then they stopped me dead in my tracks by reminding me that the Divines surely did not have trouble taking deity titles in their names!

The traditions of men are hard to shake loose, huh?

There's not a thing wrong with the term "divine" for a theologian, its only a modern linguistic quirk that makes some uncomfortable.

A person dealing with wood is a carpenter.
A person dealing in drugs (pharmacology) is a pharmacist.
A person dealing with history is a historian.
A person dealing in chemicals is a chemist.
A person dealing with electricity is an electrician.
A person dealing with law is a lawyer.
A person dealing in divinity (theology) is a divine.

As for "Rev.", its origins probably go back to the fact that officers of the church were "men of religion," that is they were not men to BE "revered" (worshiped) but were themselves "reverent" (allegedly) as in: "professionally reverent." Just as the farmer was professionally spade-handy, and the scholar professionally bookish. And so the hierarchy added terms like "very Rev." and "most Rev." etc. for their grades of prelacy.

That might not be the best beginning, however, we don't get to write our own history. And so "Rev." is the professional title for ministers today.

By the way, if you are going to write it out, instead of using the abbreviation (which abbr. I recommend), then it is proper to write it "The Reverend" with the definite article. Pretty pretentious, I must say.

The word "Rev." (as I take it today) is simply a designator, a title, for licensed and ordained minister. It lets people who don't know anything about you know what you are, and especially if you are a minister in an established church, it once again alleges "I am actually trained and skilled in the office in which I am lodged; I was called to this position, and I didn't start up a church by posting a shingle." That the title is abused is more a strike against the populace, which runs after the self-anointed, than it is against the profession which has no guild or association to chase off charlatans. That's Christ's job, outside our denominational self-police.

I use/have used "Rev" "Pastor" and "VDM" (Verbum Dei Minister) in various circumstances.

__________________
Rev. Bruce G. Buchanan
ChainOLakes Presbyterian Church, CentralLake, MI


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When I was a working pastor, I always prefered to have people refer to me as "His Holiness, the Most Rev. Dr. Pooh Bah" before kissing my ring. But, maybe that was just me?

Actually, "pastor" was fine (I HATED Rev.).

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Atherton Baptist Homes, CEO
First Baptist Church of Alhambra, Member, Transformation Ministries (CA)

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Pastor for me.

Sometimes in SBC circles you hear members of the church call their pastor "brother" and/or "preacher". Of course, "brother" is a more general term used for all men of the church. Rarely do we use Reverend.

I have one member that likes to call me "Herr Pastor".

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Ivan R. Schoen, B.A., M.A., M.L.I.S.
Pastor of Maranatha Baptist Church (SBC)
Poplar Grove, IL, USA
http://maranatha-sbc.org

And that's Baptists for ya'.

I didn't vote because I'm honestly ignorant. I found Rev. Buchanan's post to be quite instructive however.

__________________
Andrew DeShazo
Husband of Kathryn
Father of Phillip-Giles B. DeShazo
Deacon
Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church, Memphis, TN
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"I am the way, and the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." Christ, died 33 AD, ressurected three days later.

Fragments of Popery among Nonconformists

Here is Spurgeon's take on the situation, entitled 'Fragments of POPERY among nonconformists'.

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Jonathan Hunt

Elder holding forth the word of life at:
Cheltenham Evangelical Free Church (Confessionally Based)
Cheltenham, Gloucestershire, United Kingdom

Logic is a systematic method of coming to the wrong conclusion with confidence.
-- Thomas Elsworth

Call me anabaptist but I like the term "Brother" myself.

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Pergamum


"If a commission by an earthly king is considered a honor, how can a commission by a Heavenly King be considered a sacrifice?"
-- David Livingstone

Here they call me "Servant of the Lord" - which has a nice ring too. Servant might be the most Biblical from Paul's example.

I concur with Rev. Buchanan. One of the issues we have in the Church today is the informality many Pastors take to their work. Just like dressing to "fit in" and be "hip" some of the clergy have gotten rid of these "outdated" titles in order to be more "relevant" to their congregation when in fact I believe that this being a symptom of the greater problem of the loss of the "dignity" of the Office of Overseer. There is a dire and real seriousness with being called to be an undershepherd in the Church of Christ, which many expect their Pastor to take seriously (not saying that anyone here does not) and the effort to be tragically hip does not help but I believe hinders one's ministry. This is one of the reasons why we see young people going to Rome, Constantinople, and Canterbury.

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Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, Licentiate, Associate Reformed Presbyterian Church
Member Fairmount ARP Church
Pittsburgh, PA

Deo Vindice

Good question.
I find "reverend" to be pretentious, so ignore it and won't use it in regard to anyone else.
The term "pastor" means shepherd, and is, in my opinion, the greatest compliment I can be paid. A shepherd cares for the sheep. He is the tool of the Master-shepherd. His life is focused on ministering God's Word to His people. In light of this, he either is a true shepherd, or he is not. If he is, call him "pastor" out of love for him. If he is not then don't denigrate the true shepherd by calling a hireling "pastor." Let him be reverend - he can have it.
In light of this understanding, I do not call myself pastor. I answer to it. If someone asks if I'm the pastor then I say I am. But I do not present myself, nor sign my name, "Pastor Joe." As far as I'm concerned self-given titles are self-promoting titles, as are letters after one's name. Give honor where honor is due, sure, but that doesn't mean we seek it for ourselves... we might find ourselves relegated to the back seats in the synagogues. Men who seek the respect of men will get their reward. True shepherds have a greater reward as "good and faithful slaves."
Once in a while someone comes along calling me "father." But they always want something, usually money.
What it comes down to: If you write me a letter, call me by my given name. If you introduce me, introduce me by my given name. If I shepherd you, or you can with confidence call me a true shepherd, then feel free to call me "pastor." It's humbling, thrilling and convicting while conveying honor and respect; as long as one remembers the nature of the calling.

Blessings
Just plain old "Joe," a slave of Christ

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For the Glory of our King,
Joe Johnson
Slave of Christ, husband, father, Preacherboy at Cornerstone Community Church, Escanaba, MI. and TMS graduate. Personal website - SoundLife.org

I do not know, and I do not say, that a person cannot believe in Revelation and in evolution, too, for a man may believe that which is infinitely wise and also that which is only asinine. ~ CHS

Thumbs Up all the way through!!

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Lawrence Underwood, Jr.
Pastor - Providence Family Fellowship / Mobile, Alabama
1644/46 LBC
My Blog - Imprimis

Why not use the term Presbyter?

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Thomas Yeutter,
Mason, MI
Member St. Patrick's Anglican Church, Comstock, MI

Ezra 7:10 For Ezra had set his heart to study the law of the Lord and to do it and to teach its statues in Isreal.

I was invited to preach at a Lutheran church and they asked if I wanted to be listed as Pastor or Reverend. I told them that not being an ordained man, why don't they just list me as Brother Bob. They said, "But then people will think you are a monk."

I told them that Mr. would be perfectly appropriate. (I ruined my vows of chastity and obedience long ago but I'm holding the line on poverty pretty well.)

For Pastors I prefer..... pastor. The other titles seem way too pretentious.

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The Heartbeat of Heaven (blog)
Deacon/Christ Presbyterian Church, Janesville, WI OPC www.christ-opc.org

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Because no-one will understand what you mean!!

What's wrong with Teaching Elder?

Rev. is good, so is Pastor. Besides the questionable affect on the membership that a casual or egalitarian view of Church Office can have, I think it may also tend to cause the officeholders themselves to take their positions less seriously than they should. I'm all for titles, especially since I don't have any.

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Brad
Member- Eagle Heights PCA
Winchester, VA

Pro 16:33 The lot is cast into the lap; but the whole disposing thereof is of the LORD.

Isa 8:20 To the law and to the testimony: if they speak not according to this word, it is because there is no light in them.

Some may not like terms such as "Reverend" or "Divine" but how many refer to their ordained fathers as "Angels?" The Holy Scriptures go that far do they not?

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Christopher Reeder
Husband to Kara, Father to Abigail (8), Caleb (7), Grace (5 1/2), Zoë (4), Elijah (2), Hannah (1), and Mary (due February 2010)

Member: Pilgrim Presbyterian Church (OPC), Raleigh, NC

I think a certain amount of informality is good. Nothing worse than stuffy formalism...maybe even worse than "hip" youth pastors saying dude and man.

True but I think there is a difference between being formal and stuffy.

... and pride.


I strongly recommend reading "The Minister as Shepherd." It's very helpful in regard to this, and challenging for any minister of God's Word.

From the online Etymology dictionary:
Rverend: 1428, "worthy of respect," from M.Fr. reverend, from L. reverendus "(he who is) to be respected."

The etymolgy does not suggest reference to "one who himself is reverent" but one who is to be revered (respected).

__________________
Jim
1689 LBCF
Independent Bible Church
North Texas, USA

Right.

I think this is an issue that really shows one of the differences between Presbyterians/Continentals and the independents/congregationalists in the Reformed world.

He's a former Lutheran.

ˇOˇ (that's my emoticon for a shrug) I still wonder whether the word was originally adopted as a means of accruing honors to the person so designated.

Did clerics need to remind people to respect them back then? Maybe so. But it seems odd in a stratified, feudal society where the pecking order was "fixed", and churchmen were already elevated. But I suppose, as a person went "up the ladder" as regards the hierarchy, they might be "getting closer to God", hence: Bishop "the MOST Rev."?

It would be nice if today, the title had more to do with the object of their profession than the men wearing it. But I think worrying about where the word came from in our own time is just a way to frustration. I guarantee, no one wants to try to be "consistent" as far as that goes. Imagine trying to watch all our words, and picking and choosing them based on how they were coined, and judging them by their history.

Can't use the word "nice" because that's a bad word.
Call everyone who lives in a detached dwelling a "villain".
Etc.

Use or abandon "Rev." as you will. As far as I'm concerned, its not much different than "Esq."

What's wrong with Biblical titles? I just don't get this seeming need to classify it any other way.

I see no scriptural basis for religious titles. Besides, pastor-teacher is a gift not an office. (Eph. 4:11)

I Timothy 3.1 This is a true saying, if a man desire the office of a bishop, he desireth a good work.

The idea in Ephesians 4 is that the risen Christ has given gifts to his church i.e. men who are pastors and teachers.

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Rev. Adam King
Minister in the RPCNA
Pastor,Trinity Reformed Church
Wichita, KS

I agree Jim. That's my point. Biblically I see no warrant for titles. If someone wants to describe me as a pastor that is fine.

I agree. My point was that even though we see Elder as an office, there is no example religious titles used -- and even so, pastor-teacher is not an office, but a gift. It is a gift we should expect in our Elders, if not a qualification. But there is no biblical warrant for designating one as the Pastor of a church.

Beside 1 Tim.3:1, I can say this: I have been "installed" in an office. The office exists, regardless of me. It belongs to the church. I am not "significant" enough to "create" this office or "own" this position. It is a privilege to be in this office. King Jesus has commissioned me an officer in his service.

The bolded statement is simply wrong, factually. Whatever you think of the extraordinary office of Apostle, versus the lesser ones, Paul, etc., certainly DID use the designation as a title.

Frankly, after having moved about in numerous religious circles over the years (everything from RCC to Reformed and almost everything in between), I have found that the title Rev. more often than not is used to put a person higher than everyone else, and this fosters an idea of class which I do not find biblical. While I don't mind a person using Rev. as a title. I refuse to call someone Rev. unless I am using the title in a formal sense.

Pastor is good, but I don't find that in the Scriptures either. I call my pastor by his first name, but when speaking of him to others, I call him Pastor Ron.

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J Baldwin
Keowee Presbyterian Church, PCA
Pickens, SC
“You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your strength and with all your mind, and your neighbor as yourself.” Luke 10:27

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Pastor is quite biblical:
Ephesians 4:11-16 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 For the perfecting of the saints, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom the whole body fitly joined together and compacted by that which every joint supplieth, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh increase of the body unto the edifying of itself in love.

Just because Rome and others have misused it does not mean it is unbiblical or incorrect to use the term.

The question in the OP is the title Rev. biblical. As it is used most often in many religious circles, I don't believe it is. Most of the time when it is used, especially in non-reformed circles, the title is used with the words "the" or "the most" as if this person was more right or more holy than the rest of us. While that is not the meaning of the word, that is how it is used.


If someone has earned that title by study, I will use it in correspondence or when writing their name in a formal setting to show recognition for what they have achieved, but I will not call someone that intentionally as it is too often misunderstood.