I have a question regarding overseers.

1 Timothy 3:4 reads.

My questions is: If a married man does not have children would this disqualify him from the office?

I would say no. This does not disqualify him from the office as long as his duties as a husband are in order and the other qualifications are met. My understanding of the text is this: If he does have children they should be submissive and orderly. However, it doesn't seem that its a prerequisite for a overseer to have children.

What think ye?

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John J.
Member Christ Prebyterian Church (OPC)
Salt Lake City, Utah
www.christpres.net

Years ago, when I was a RE in the Colleyville, TX, PCA church, we had a Godly deacon who came under conviction that "husband of one wife" meant he had to be married, and was a lifelong bachelor, and nothing we could say dissuaded him. He resigned from the deaconate, and as I recall, he was one of our best ones. A year or so later, he died of a brain tumor. Bless his memory.

Since Paul had legal training, I don't know why he didn't say, "He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children, if any, submissive."

But years ago, I realized that the Holy Spirit has done a lot of things without checking with me on them.

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HaigLaw, ruling elder
Grace PCA, Shreveport, LA
http://www.xanga.com/HaigLaw

No.

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Josh Hicks, Chloë's Daddy
Member of TRBC. My Blog
The Puritan Pub (Team Blog)
Board Rules-Signature Requirements-Suggestions?

No. The qualification relates to how well he manages those that are in his household. It's inclusive of the most important things one would want to evaluate if a man had them in his household. I've seen others that read the qualities that a man's wife should exhibit as evidence that only married men can be Elders. This is a surface reading of the text. The text does not require that a man be married and have children, the qualifications relate to how well he manages it when he is married and has children.

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Rich
Okinawa, Japan

SoliDeoGloria.com - A Community for Reformed Thought and Discussion
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Agreed.

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Ivan Schoen, Pastor
Maranatha Baptist Church
Poplar Grove, Illinois USA
http://maranatha-sbc.org/
Husband to Nancy
Father to Sherril, Sarah, Kathryn
Grandfather to Phillip
Faith is the refusal to panic. Martyn Lloyd-Jones

Think about that for a minute. If a marriage and children were necessary, then Paul could not be an elder.

Neither could Christ.

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Fredrick T. Greco
Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
Christ Church Blog

"The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

Think?

Fred, Fred,

You should be asking how I feel about it.

Well said.

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Benjamin P. Glaser
Pittsburgh, PA
Fairmount ARP Church

Student of Theology
Pittsburgh Theological Seminary
Reformed Presbyterian Theological Seminary
My Blog

Quick, Quick! EMOTE!!

This seems simple enough to us but unfortunately there are many who cannot or will not accept it and insist that a man must be married. More commonly you hear the more pragmatic refrain "well how can he relate if he's single and/or doesn't have children."

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Chris Poe--Attending Grace Community Baptist Church, Mandeville, LA

"There never was a man in the world without a creed. What is a creed? A creed is what you believe. What is a confession? It is a declaration of what you believe. That declaration may be oral or it may be committed to writing, but the creed is there either expressed or implied."—B.H. Carroll

Click to get: Board Rules--Signature Requirements--Suggestions?

Indeed. It's precisely a misunderstanding of the office of Pastor. They are to minister the Word of God and Shepherd the Flock. They do these things not by virtue of their experiences, but by the truth found in the Word of God.

I've heard that same argument used many times against the Roman priesthood.

Was Paul an elder, or was elder an automatic subclass of apostle?

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Tom Albrecht
Member, Covenant URCNA, New Holland, PA.

"I'm not a famous man. I'm just a simple country doctor with horse sense."

I haven't seen it argued recently but I think the usual argument asserts that Jesus and Paul were not ordinary church officers. But in one of his epistles IIRC Peter (who was married) refers to himself as an elder.

An elder must demonstrate that he is above reproach as the steward (house manager) of God. Ordinarily, that would be demonstrated by the stewardship of his wife and children. However, if blamelessness in stewardship could be demonstrated some other way, then that might be acceptable.

I think disqualification based on the lack of children is going to far. That being said, I believe that ordinarily God prepares elders through the stewardship of their wife and children.

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Suppose you are sitting on a candidates and credentials committee. What other comparable "stewardship" would be appropriate to demonstrate ability in this area? Remember, the key in Paul’s requirements is concrete demonstration of the ability to evoke godly submission. Household submission is important and unique and parallels to a degree the submission found in the church.

if i had a penny......

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How often have you wondered why Christ should set His heart upon such a one as you! --Octavius Winslow

Lon Wadkins (Jesup, Iowa)
New Covenant Fellowship, OPC
Independence, Iowa

The same kind of godly submission that our Lord evoked in others.