Adam B., Wine Country, California, PCA
Whisky may not cure the common cold, but it fails more agreeably than most other things.
Thanks! I thought the Bay area was NorCal Presbytery! I'm about 5 hours south.Tim,
Was this intended for me?
If so, you would reside in the Southwest Presby of the PCA. We're in Pleasanton, Cali (Bay Area). Wanna move?
Cheers,
Tim Vaughan
Member, Redeemer Presbyterian, OPC,
Santa Maria
California
Are they formally ordained (laying of hands) or simply titled 'deaconess' for their role of service?[/QUOTE]
The short answer is "YES"...some are!
Liberti Church in Pennsylvania definitely laid hands on their women deacons.
You can see the pictures via this link-
Liberti Church
Pictures 19 and 21 clearly depict the laying on of hands.
So can you lay hands on and not ordain? Can you ordain w/out that office having any authority? If some are arguing that the office doesn't have "authority" then why not just follow the BCO 9.7? It says that individual Sessions are allowed to "select and appoint godly men and women of the congregation to assist the deacons in caring for the sick, the widows, the orphans, the prisoners, and others who may be in distress or need." (BCO 9-7). Why not just follow BCO 9.7? In my mind it's because of the issue of authority.
It seems to me that if "we" are "laying hands" and ordaining women then we must remove BCO 9.3 - which says, "To the office of deacon, which is spiritual in nature, shall be chosen men of spiritual character, honest repute, exemplary lives, brotherly spirit, warm sympathies, and sound judgement."
It seems to me that the office is clearly one of authority. BCO 17-2 clearly states it is:
"Ordination is the authoritative admission of one duly called to an office in the Church of God, accompanied with prayer and the laying on of hands, to which it is proper to add the giving of the right hand of fellowship."
Gage Browning (Layman)
Grace Community Presbyterian Church
PCA Fort Worth, Texas
Tim,
My bad. Yes, bay area is NorCal presby. I misunderstood, and was saying that San Luis is in Southwest... silly me.
Move to the Bay Area! We have homeschool families in our church, and we also support a missionary from S.A. (Charl van Wyk). I visited S.A. in 2004, and had a wonderful time.
I see you have lots of kids, and that you do contracting; what sort? I'm a CPA contractor in San Fran, and commute in from Pleasanton.
Godspeed,
Adam
Adam B., Wine Country, California, PCA
Whisky may not cure the common cold, but it fails more agreeably than most other things.
Well that's the real issue, and it's seperate from the issue of the propriety of woman deacons.
I guess it depends on when the laying on hands is appropriate. Is it only done for ordination? I have seen it done in the commissioning of missionaries, for example. In such cases it is often done with lay persons among those who are doing the laying on of hands. Is this also inappropriate?So can you lay hands on and not ordain? Can you ordain w/out that office having any authority? If some are arguing that the office doesn't have "authority" then why not just follow the BCO 9.7? It says that individual Sessions are allowed to "select and appoint godly men and women of the congregation to assist the deacons in caring for the sick, the widows, the orphans, the prisoners, and others who may be in distress or need." (BCO 9-7). Why not just follow BCO 9.7? In my mind it's because of the issue of authority.
It seems to me that if "we" are "laying hands" and ordaining women then we must remove BCO 9.3 - which says, "To the office of deacon, which is spiritual in nature, shall be chosen men of spiritual character, honest repute, exemplary lives, brotherly spirit, warm sympathies, and sound judgement."
It seems to me that the office is clearly one of authority. BCO 17-2 clearly states it is:
"Ordination is the authoritative admission of one duly called to an office in the Church of God, accompanied with prayer and the laying on of hands, to which it is proper to add the giving of the right hand of fellowship."
I am working on a website to archive all links and info about the female deacon/deaconess discussion in the PCA. Please send me your links, etc.
http://www.waysidechurch.org/femdeacs/femdeacs.htm
Thank you!
Dr. M. St. John, Pastor
Wayside Presbyterian Church (PCA)
Signal Mtn, TN
"Trusting only in the grace of God..."
Stephen Welch
PCA Teaching Elder
Nova Scotia :cheers:
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