"A One-Woman Man"

raekwon · #1 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 07:22 PM

Stemming from the female deacons thread...

May a divorced man fill the office of Elder or Deacon?
How about a widower?
How about a single man?
(See the poll.)

Why or why not?

GO!

(GRR... messed up the poll. The second to last option is supposed to say "Widowers who have re-married." Can a mod edit that for me?)

J. David Kear · #2 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 07:39 PM

I did not vote because I believe that being a "one women man" means a man who has a current and proven lifestyle of faithfulness to his spouse if he has one. In which case none of these choices are necessarily ruled out.

Presbyterian Deacon · #3 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 07:39 PM

The answer is:
(f) ALL OF THE ABOVE

Contra Marcion · #4 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 07:56 PM

I don't agree with all of his teachings, but Douglas Wilson actually provides an excellent treatment of this topic in "Mother Kirk". Read with discernment, of course, but it's definately worth the read.

He advocates the reading "one woman man", referring more to a character trait than to a "spouse count".

I voted "all of the above", under the right circumstances.

Dr Mike Kear · #5 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. David Kear

I did not vote because I believe that being a "one women man" means a man who has a current and proven lifestyle of faithfulness to his spouse if he has one. In which case none of these choices are necessarily ruled out.

Which is why I voted for all of them (you can do that on this poll).

Brad · #6 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 08:42 PM

Husband of one wife means.... well... husband of one wife. Why would we want (or need) to complicate matters beyond the obvious.

Married men (who've only been married once)

Backwoods Presbyterian · #7 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 08:53 PM

I could see not allowing single Men who have never been married to hold the Office of Elder or Deacon. I think the ability to run a household is a significant prerequisite for Paul in electing Men for these offices.

DMcFadden · #8 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 08:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dr Mike Kear

Quote:

Originally Posted by J. David Kear

I did not vote because I believe that being a "one women man" means a man who has a current and proven lifestyle of faithfulness to his spouse if he has one. In which case none of these choices are necessarily ruled out.

Which is why I voted for all of them (you can do that on this poll).

The context of the passage deals with the character of one's heart, not the compromises of one's history; about present spirituality, not past sin; about being a model of fidelity in the present, not about failures in one's past.

I know pastors who experienced divorce as young men (left by their wives) who are 1 Tim 3:2 μιᾶς γυναικὸς ἄνδρα exemplars. But, as in the case of one of my own mentors in ministry, I also know one man quite well who engaged in triple digit affairs (yes, more than 99 women!) over a decade and is still married (now in his mid 70s). The first case could be a "one woman man" despite a divorce; the second is a miserable failure as a "one woman man" despite his one 55 yr. marriage!

I have always thought that the conservative Dr. Saucy pretty well dispensed with all of the exegetical options other than the following:

Quote:

The “husband of one wife” qualification therefore, it seems to us, does not demand the absence of life-long sin in the area of marriage relationships, but the evidence that the power of God’s transforming grace is presently operative in the life of the candidate to the effect that if there has been sin in these areas, it has been forgiven through genuine repentance, and the sinful tendencies which led to the breakdown have been overcome by the power of the indwelling Spirit of holiness.

BSac 131:523 (Jul 74), 229-240.

Brad · #9 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 09:16 PM

Quote:

The context of the passage deals with the character of one's heart, not the compromises of one's history; about present spirituality, not past sin; about being a model of fidelity in the present, not about failures in one's past.

Where on earth do you get that? Not from scripture, bro. Paul and the Holy Spirit are niether one inarticulate. If there were other meanings than what is written, they would have been... uh... written. Why do we find a need to imbue the passage with meaning that it does not express? Please demonstrate this assertion from scripture.

Brad · #10 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 09:23 PM

Here's another question: If the determination of a man's qualifications as an officer of the church are a matter of the "character of one's heart" now, regardless of his past, rather than the God-ordained situation in which he abides, why are women barred from such office based solely upon the God-ordained situation in which they abide?

goretorade · #11 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 09:27 PM

what about a man who had an unjustifiably divorce...and later repented...but still remarried?

Brad · #12 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by goretorade

what about a man who had an unjustifiably divorce...and later repented...but still remarried?

Was God not sovereign over that event?

PuritanCovenanter · #13 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 09:29 PM

My RPCNA pastor said it was a one woman minded man. He even said an unmarried man could fill a position of Deacon or Elder. I would also include a man whose wife abandoned the family, she commits adultery, and then he remarries. He can still be a one woman minded man. Committed to one woman.

And I know there are some who are not liking what I am saying here. Oh Well.

I voted for all of the above.

An unjustifiably remarried man is not ordination material.

DMcFadden · #14 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 09:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brad

Quote:

The context of the passage deals with the character of one's heart, not the compromises of one's history; about present spirituality, not past sin; about being a model of fidelity in the present, not about failures in one's past.

Where on earth do you get that? Not from scripture, bro. Paul and the Holy Spirit are niether one inarticulate. If there were other meanings than what is written, they would have been... uh... written. Why do we find a need to imbue the passage with meaning that it does not express? Please demonstrate this assertion from scripture.

Please don't be so strident with me, bro. At least give me the courtesy of explaining before you set off all of the alarms.

1. The context of the passage in 1 Tim 3 deals with a number of behaviors that are disqualifying for the role of elder. If a biblically justified divorce at age 20 rules out a man from qualifying as elder at 40, then what of the other qualifications? Do you really want to say that 1 Tim 3 which was written to a congregation of relatively new Christians excludes all those who have had sin problems in the past with any of the following?

Quote:

Therefore an overseer must be above reproach, the husband of one wife, sober minded, self-controlled, respectable, hospitable, able to teach, not a drunkard, not violent but gentle, not quarrelsome, not a lover of money. He must manage his own household well, with all dignity keeping his children submissive, for if someone does not know how to manage his own household, how will he care for God's church? He must not be a recent convert, or he may become puffed up with conceit and fall into the condemnation of the devil. Moreover, he must be well thought of by outsiders, so that he may not fall into disgrace, into a snare of the devil. ESV

Why would the Lord allow former drunks, former violent, for quarrelsome, former materialists to serve as elders and not the formerly divorced?

Since the Scripture puts the "one woman man" qualification in the midst of a passage indicating that candidates for elder should be free of several other sinful patterns in the present (despite what they may have been guilty of in the past, Brad, it would seem that I got it from Scripture).

2. I gave you a citation of a journal article which painstakingly works from the original to show how the VERY articulate Holy Spirit spoke through the VERY articulate Paul to present a VERY clear meaning for "mias gunaikos andra" (one woman man). If you take the time to look up the article you will see pages of reasons why the "clear" meaning of the passage is NOT identical with several popular misunderstandings.

3. In the history of the church, we have a record of how this verse has been interpreted. The restrictive interpretation (must be married rather than single, may only be married once, no remarriage after widowhood, etc.) does not seem to be a fair reading of the text and has been discarded by most interpreters, not for reasons of counting hands, but for good reason. Incidentally, those who argue the restrictive view are forced to exclude childless elders.

4. Jesus was not married, nor was Paul (certainly not when he wrote to the Corinthians and when he wished that "all" would be as he was). If the restrictive view were correct, Paul himself would be unqualified as an elder.

Brad, I sincerely think that the Bible teaches a view lifting high the importance of elders as a model of fidelity in a world of loose living.

gene_mingo · #15 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 09:59 PM

I voted A.

I do have questions about everyones opinion.

1)Would pre marital sex with a partner other than the final choice for wife bar a man from holding the office.
2) What if the couple lived together for a period of time?

And lastly,
I know this thread is about divorced men and church office, but if one sticks to a plain reading of the text it would seem that children could also be included as qualification for office. Maybe topic for another thread?

DMcFadden · #16 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 10:02 PM

The question is not what does a "one woman man" sound like to me today. The issue is what did Paul intend to be understood by the phrase in 1 Timothy 3?

Quote:

“Husband of one wife” refers to one’s current marital status and behavior; validly divorced people who remarried were considered married to one spouse, the second one, not to two spouses.Keener, C. S., & InterVarsity Press. (1993). The IVP Bible background commentary : New Testament (1 Ti 3:2). Downers Grove, Ill.: InterVarsity Press.

The solidly Reformed Baker New Testament Commentary observes:

Quote:

This cannot mean that an overseer or elder must be a married man. Rather, it is assumed that he is married — as was generally the case —, and it is stipulated that in this marital relationship he must be an example to others of faithfulness to his one and only marriage-partner. Infidelity in this relationship is a sin against which Scripture warns repeatedly. That this sin and those related to it (sexual immorality in any form) were of frequent occurrence among the Jews and certainly among the Gentiles, is clear from ever so many passages (among many others: Ex. 20:14; Lev. 18:20; 20:10; Deut. 5:18; 22:23; II Sam. 12; Is. 51; Prov. 2:17; Prov. chapter 7; Jer. 23:10, 14; 29:23; Hos. 1:2; 2:2; 3:1; Matt. 5:28; John 8:3; Rom. 1:27; 7:3; I Cor. 5:1, 9; 6:9–11; 7:2; Gal. 5:19. See also N.T.C. on I Thess. 4:3–8). And let us not forget what Paul says in this very epistle (see on I Tim. 1:10). Accordingly, the meaning of our present passage (I Tim. 3:2) is simply this, that an overseer or elder must be a man of unquestioned morality, one who is entirely true and faithful to his one and only wife; one who, being married, does not in pagan fashion enter into an immoral relationship with another woman.
Hendriksen, W., & Kistemaker, S. J. (1953-2001). Vol. 4: New Testament commentary : Exposition of the Pastoral Epistles. Accompanying biblical text is author's translation. New Testament Commentary (121). Grand Rapids: Baker Book House.

In fact, Hendriksen and Kistemaker go on to call it "inexcusable" to change the meaning of the biblical text to make it say what it does not say (e.g., insisting on elders being married or remarriage after the death of a spouse).

Backwoods Presbyterian · #17 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 10:19 PM

Ivanhoe · #18 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 10:24 PM

YouTube - George Jones - One Woman Man

Dr Mike Kear · #19 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 10:26 PM

DMcFadden · #20 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 10:30 PM

Jacob,

I'm not sure about Rev. Jones' exegesis. But, wow, those facial expressions are classic!

Ivanhoe · #21 (**permalink**) 03-05-2008, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DMcFadden

Jacob,

I'm not sure about Rev. Jones' exegesis. But, wow, those facial expressions are classic!

Indeed. Arguably the greatest voice in country music, too.