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    fredtgreco's Avatar
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    Court Dismisses Claims Challenging All-Male Limits On Theology Faculty

    Fred Greco
    Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
    Christ Church Blog

    "The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

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    Nice!
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    Good. Glad to see Paige Paterson had the cajones to stand by his convictions.
    Rev. Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, ARP
    Pastor, Ellisville Presbyterian Church, ARP
    Ellisville, Mississippi

    ‎‎"Ministers of the Gospel, when dispensing the truths of God, must preach home to their own souls, as well as unto others. Sir's, we do not deliver truths or doctrines to you, wherein we ourselves have no manner of concern. No, our own souls are at the stake, and shall either perish or be saved eternally, as we receive or reject these precious truths which we deliver unto you. And truly, it can never be expected that we will apply the truths of God with any warmth or liveliness unto others, unless we first make a warm application thereof to our own souls. And if we do not feed upon these doctrines, and practise these duties, which we deliver to and inculcate upon you, though we preach unto others, we ourselves are but castaways." -- Ebenezer Erskine, "The Assurance of Faith", pg. 8

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshua View Post
    And furthermore, why is it the Court's/State's/Government's business to meddle with anyway? I'm glad for the ruling, I suppose, but I'm very disappointed that the courts, et al have any jurisdiction over at all.
    It revolved around an employment lawsuit. The court basically ruled that it did not have jurisdiction in a seminary/church employment matter.
    Fred Greco
    Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
    Christ Church Blog

    "The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

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    Joshua,

    Our law doesn't function that way. Fortunately, the law protects the Church, for now, from being forced to violate it's own religious views and adopt the secular, which is what would happen were this court to hold otherwise. They would force the Seminary to abandon religious conviction and adopt secular religious views regarding women in teaching positions.

    It's comming folks. Most assuredly.
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    Andrew
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    Quote Originally Posted by fredtgreco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by joshua View Post
    And furthermore, why is it the Court's/State's/Government's business to meddle with anyway? I'm glad for the ruling, I suppose, but I'm very disappointed that the courts, et al have any jurisdiction over at all.
    It revolved around an employment lawsuit. The court basically ruled that it did not have jurisdiction in a seminary/church employment matter.
    Thanks. I actually have a similar case heading for summary judgment hearing in a couple of weeks. This decision applies the same argument I'm using. I'll bring it up in oral argument.
    R. Victor Bottomly
    Port Cities Reformed Baptist Church, Lewiston ID

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    No, I'm not missing the point. I know the law should protect the church, but the fact that it does now is only a fleeting remant of the true meaning behind the laws of our land. Just as every other piece of jurisprudence considered archaic by our liberalized judicial and legislative systems has been replaced with garbage that fits their agenda to enslave the public to governmental power, this too will be swept away to enslave the church to the will of the National government.
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    Quote Originally Posted by victorbravo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fredtgreco View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by joshua View Post
    And furthermore, why is it the Court's/State's/Government's business to meddle with anyway? I'm glad for the ruling, I suppose, but I'm very disappointed that the courts, et al have any jurisdiction over at all.
    It revolved around an employment lawsuit. The court basically ruled that it did not have jurisdiction in a seminary/church employment matter.
    Thanks. I actually have a similar case heading for summary judgment hearing in a couple of weeks. This decision applies the same argument I'm using. I'll bring it up in oral argument.
    I wanna help.
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    Andrew
    Member, Independent Presbyterian Church (PCA)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by victorbravo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by fredtgreco View Post

    It revolved around an employment lawsuit. The court basically ruled that it did not have jurisdiction in a seminary/church employment matter.
    Thanks. I actually have a similar case heading for summary judgment hearing in a couple of weeks. This decision applies the same argument I'm using. I'll bring it up in oral argument.
    I wanna help.
    Yes, I hear you are a star at oral argument. It would be fun to have you. But it's already been briefed and I think it will be hard to get you admitted to the Washington bar by Friday after next, even pro hace vice.
    R. Victor Bottomly
    Port Cities Reformed Baptist Church, Lewiston ID

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    Awwww shucks!
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    Member, Independent Presbyterian Church (PCA)

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    Quote Originally Posted by victorbravo View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenas View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by victorbravo View Post

    Thanks. I actually have a similar case heading for summary judgment hearing in a couple of weeks. This decision applies the same argument I'm using. I'll bring it up in oral argument.
    I wanna help.
    Yes, I hear you are a star at oral argument. It would be fun to have you. But it's already been briefed and I think it will be hard to get you admitted to the Washington bar by Friday after next, even pro hace vice.
    C'mon, Vic! Surely you have some photocopies that could be made, or memos to be proofread!

    After all, what are young associates for?
    Fred Greco
    Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
    Christ Church Blog

    "The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenas View Post
    Joshua,

    Our law doesn't function that way. Fortunately, the law protects the Church, for now, from being forced to violate it's own religious views and adopt the secular, which is what would happen were this court to hold otherwise. They would force the Seminary to abandon religious conviction and adopt secular religious views regarding women in teaching positions.

    It's comming folks. Most assuredly.
    Zenas,

    Would this apply even in a case where the seminary / church under question were not a creature of the state? For example, if the seminary weren't organized under state law, would they be under the jurisdiction which they often find themselves under?

    Adam
    Adam B., Old Dominion, RPCNA

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christusregnat View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by Zenas View Post
    Joshua,

    Our law doesn't function that way. Fortunately, the law protects the Church, for now, from being forced to violate it's own religious views and adopt the secular, which is what would happen were this court to hold otherwise. They would force the Seminary to abandon religious conviction and adopt secular religious views regarding women in teaching positions.

    It's comming folks. Most assuredly.
    Zenas,

    Would this apply even in a case where the seminary / church under question were not a creature of the state? For example, if the seminary weren't organized under state law, would they be under the jurisdiction which they often find themselves under?

    Adam
    Incorporation has nothing to do with control. That is something espoused by "the church must never incorporate" types. Think about it. Can the courts rule on partnerships? Of course. How about a foreign entity? Of course.

    Law are applied outside of direct jurisdiction. The protection of the Church is to be found in the 1st Amendment, not in incorporation or jurisdictional theory.
    Fred Greco
    Senior Pastor, Christ Church PCA (Katy, TX)
    Christ Church Blog

    "The heart is the main thing in true religion...It is the hinge and turning-point in the condition of man's soul. If the heart is alive to God and quickened by the Spirit, the man is a living Christian. If the heart is dead and has not the Spirit, the man is dead before God." (J.C. Ryle)

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    This brings up another question.
    If accreditors can accept and decline who they wish based on criteria that would be acceptable to the government (like a quota for women), would the seminary have the same "cajones" when faced with losing accreditation?
    Larry Bray
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    But I think the question larryjf is if the State can force religious institutions to fit those quotas. See Geneva College v. State of PA concerning Geneva's right to make being a Christian a requirement for hiring and the right of Geneva to post job opportunities on a State-run job links website. The courts finally ruled that the State has no right to deny opportunity to companies who want to post job openings on a state-run website because of the colleges religious convictions.
    Rev. Benjamin P. Glaser, M. Div, ARP
    Pastor, Ellisville Presbyterian Church, ARP
    Ellisville, Mississippi

    ‎‎"Ministers of the Gospel, when dispensing the truths of God, must preach home to their own souls, as well as unto others. Sir's, we do not deliver truths or doctrines to you, wherein we ourselves have no manner of concern. No, our own souls are at the stake, and shall either perish or be saved eternally, as we receive or reject these precious truths which we deliver unto you. And truly, it can never be expected that we will apply the truths of God with any warmth or liveliness unto others, unless we first make a warm application thereof to our own souls. And if we do not feed upon these doctrines, and practise these duties, which we deliver to and inculcate upon you, though we preach unto others, we ourselves are but castaways." -- Ebenezer Erskine, "The Assurance of Faith", pg. 8

    Deo Vindice

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    Quote Originally Posted by Zenas View Post
    Joshua,

    Our law doesn't function that way. Fortunately, the law protects the Church, for now, from being forced to violate it's own religious views and adopt the secular, which is what would happen were this court to hold otherwise. They would force the Seminary to abandon religious conviction and adopt secular religious views regarding women in teaching positions.

    It's comming folks. Most assuredly.
    Unfortunately The writing is on the wall.
    Dan
    First Reformed Church (RCUS)
    www.reformedyubacity.org
    Northern California
    The only freedom that a man ever has is when he becomes a slave to Jesus Christ. ~ R.C. Sproul

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