Thread: God's Hatred
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Old 07-06-2009, 11:40 AM
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Richard,

One of the main points I was trying to deliver is that there is a significant distinction between (1) the fact that God gives gifts to both elect and reprobate, and (2) God's purposes or intentions in giving those gifts. In my estimation, you have assumed that the giving of gifts always implies well-meant intentions. I believe this is evident from this quotation of yours:

You haven't yet explained why the Bible uses the term grace about these gifts to the reprobate if they're not gracious in any sense.

If you assume that "grace" (a gift irrespective of intentions) implies "gracious" (which you take to mean good intentions), then you have assumed what you are trying to prove and therefore begged the question. On the contrary, we must remember that for God, who alone can sovereignly decree true reactions to His workings with humans, a gift does not imply a good intention of Him. You seemed to misunderstand the point I was making regarding reprobates' reactions when you said this:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Richard Tallach View Post
Yes. But God does no violence to the reprobate to force them to sin. Therefore their wicked use of grace is their own fault and responsibilty, not God's. Everything is ordained by God for the elect and reprobate. Does it follow that God has nothing but love for the elect and hatred for the reprobate? Nothing-buttery can flatten important points.
I am not arguing that it is God's fault that reprobates twist their God-given gifts, but I will wholeheartedly argue that it is God's intention that they do so, since that is what He decreed. And therefore it is false to claim that He intends that they do otherwise. Seeing as common grace claims exactly that, it follows that common grace is false.

As I have pointed out above, I honestly think that this entire discussion comes down to the fact that for humans, gifts imply good intentions, whereas for God, this is not necessarily true. Humans cannot foreordain reactions to their gift-giving, but God can.

Otherwise, it is also important to remember that my view does not entail that God has no hardships for the elects and no blessings (gifts) for reprobates. But I will argue that everything works for the good of the elect (Romans 8:28) and for the destruction of the reprobate.

Ben
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In college, attending First Presbyterian Church (PCUSA), Ada, OH, and
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When at home, attending Covenant Presbyterian Church (OPC), Mansfield, OH


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