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Originally Posted by rbcbob  I arrived at a similar conclusion. |
Thanks. That was interesting reading.
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Originally Posted by rbcbob Loved Why? in order that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Here too the English translation is somewhat lacking. The word “whoever” is meant to translate a phrase in the Greek which is in other places rendered “everyone who”.
You might say “what’s the difference”? The difference is that “whoever” is an indefinite pronoun and means anyone and everyone whether or not there are many or none at all!
The words in the original phrase mean literally “everyone who” which is quite a definite expression as you can easily see in John 3:8__ |
I don't know Greek, so I was wondering if both ideas might be in the Greek, as in "that everyone (anyone and everyone) who believes". From God's perspective, He knows exactly who it is. For ours, it could be anybody.
-----Added 7/3/2009 at 06:15:41 EST----- Quote:
Originally Posted by SolaScriptura Incidentally, this reading (I believe it is the correct one) makes John 3:16 virtually synonymous with Rom 5:8. |
Just wondering, is that because of how the Greek is structured in John 3:16, or because of the weight of the testimony of the rest of scripture?
I ask because I'm just curious how strong of an argument can be made from just the Greek itself.
-----Added 7/3/2009 at 06:25:34 EST----- Quote:
Originally Posted by Reformed Rush Might not the overall comparison between the serpent being lifted up by Moses to counter-act the "sting of death," (John 3:14-15) with Christ being lifted up to reverse the effects of sin, have to do with the fact that both gracious acts on the part of God, were never intended, nor were ever meant to achieve universal salvation (nationally or globally); the reason given and explained in the concluding verses:
John 3:18-21
Rather, the serpent lifted up saved not all, but many, and Christ lifted up saved many, but not all. According to the spiritual principle of Isaiah 26:12:
"Let grace be shown to the wicked, yet he will not learn righteousness; in the land of uprightness he will deal unjustly and will not behold the majesty of the Lord." |
I wonder how far its safe to carry the analogy between the two. Did God choose which Israelites would look up to the serpent in the same way He chooses which in the world believe in Jesus. Some (those who looked) obviously had faith to do what intuitively made no sense (look at a serpent to be healed, after you've been bitten and are still in the midst of the serpents).