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Originally Posted by Matthias  Quote:
Originally Posted by Poimen Is the gentleman who wrote this article living in this century? If anything the clergy have become just like the masses not only by pandering to their (itching) wants and needs but also by making a laughing stock of the ministerial calling by dumbing things down and divesting themselves of any real authority. This gentleman should read more David Wells.
By all means humility is required but if Christ didn't want us to give titles to certain callings within the church then he never would given us the names 'bishop' or 'elder' or 'deacon'. It is one thing for a man to appoint himself or give himself the title, it is quite another to be given it by God.
The titles we are called to give to these men indicate to us that they do have authority otherwise how could we submit to them? If they are 'just like us' then they have no authority and the office loses its meaning. | Bishop, Elder and Deacon are offices. They do not have to be adopted as titles is all I am getting at. When Jesus instituted these offices he did not command that they be used as titles. When I was Manager at my last job nobody called me Manager Jeff. Everyone who needed to know, did know that I was Manager. They just called me Jeff(rey). However, as Manager I could have mandated that they call me Manager Jeffrey, but that would be silly since everyone knew I was Manager. In fact, when I was submitting my information for my business cards to be printed, I remember there were more than one design, and one of the designs did not have the title of Manager on the card. This stung my pride a bit, I remember it well. I wanted the title of Manager on the card. It puffed me up, even if it was just the slightest little bit. There really is something to the fact the Bible warns us about taking titles. It is an issue of pride, im sure of it.
Holding an office does not imply that office becomes your title, whether it is in the secular world, or the church.
Thats my story and im stickin to it  Maybe its just the personal conviction I came under about the business card issue. I dunno. May God give us wisdom! |
Peter calls them elders (1 Peter 5:1ff.) and Paul tells Timothy to appoint elders in every city. (Titus 1:5)
Paul signs his letters as an apostle (2 Corinthians 1:1 for example) and calls for the elders and overseers of the church to hear him (Acts 20).
Even Paul when he was taken captive said "I did not know, brethren, that he was
the high priest; for it is written, 'You shall not speak evil of a ruler of your people."
In addition Matthew 23:8 does not forbid the use of titles anymore than Matthew 5:3ff. forbids the taking of oaths. Rabbi, Teacher and Father are titles given
in place of our one Rabbi, Teacher (Christ) and Father God.
In comparison oaths made by swearing by heaven or earth are wrong because they are specifically cited in order to get away from having one's yes be yes and their no be no. When one swears or takes an oath their oath is lawful only by using God's name.
Similarly the titles of "Minister' 'Pastor' 'Elder' 'Deacon' etc. are not made/created by man but given to us by God in His Word. These words indicate the servant posture and giving of those offices, yet nevertheless identify those who have been chosen to the office and who, by the Spirit, possess real authority as representatives of Christ.