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Originally Posted by Dr. Bob Gonzales  Tom thinks my articles on the danger of Reformed traditionalism are "vague and tenuous. The presuppositions and 'facts' are questionable." Then he cites one statement where I assert that most Englishmen of the 17th century were lost. Well, I didn't intend that statement as a claim to omniscience though I think its veracity is more likely than the opposite proposition, viz., most English citizens were saved. Be that as it may, I'm willing to modify the language in order to avoid the appearance of making an indisputable factual claim. I'm not sure what other statements Tom finds "vague and tenuous." |
Dr. Gonzales,
Well, for example, you also wrote:
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As I said earlier, the Protestant Reformers were not opposed to all tradition. If you read their writings, you’ll find that they occasionally cite the church fathers and earlier church tradition in a positive light. For instance, both Luther and Calvin had a deep appreciation for the writings of Augustine. They sometimes quoted Augustine to demonstrate that what they were teaching was not entirely novel. But we do not seem to find among the Reformers a pronounced concern or preoccupation to be identified with the Augustinian tradition. We do not find Protestant churches springing up with the name, “The Augustinian Church of Wittenburg,” or “Grace Augustinian Church.” We do not find Luther and Calvin calling the church to return to the writings of Augustine. Rather, the Reformers were primarily concerned to take the church back not to Augustine, not to Athanasius, not to Irenaeus, but all the way back to Jesus, and to Paul, and to John, and to the other biblical writers.
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I’m not as familiar with Luther as with Calvin, but I’m not sure how you can suggest that the Reformers only occasionally cite the church fathers in their works. Calvin’s
Institutes and commentaries are replete with references to early church traditions, often positive. One can hardly turn a page without seeing references to the writings of Augustine, Jerome, Chrysostom, Bernard, etc, etc. I believe the same can be said of Turretin and others who wrote extensively in a systematic way. I think we also see this same commitment to earlier Church traditions in the later wrings of men like Charles Hodge in his
Systematic Theology.
How folks may have named their churches does not seem to be a good argument for whether the Reformers were committed to Augustinian or any other early theological perspective. Isn’t it a bit anachronistic to suggest the Reformers would have named their local churches after any church father? It’s a weak argument at best.
I think you are minimizing the extent to which the Reformers were indebted to earlier Church tradition for the core of their theology in order to bolster your argument. I believe it was not the intent to take the Church “all the way back to Jesus” so as to ignore all the theological developments and history that had been going on for fifteen centuries. I believe it was their intent to build on the solid foundation and deposit of truth that Christ left with His people. Calvin, et al did not hold a view of the Church as fundamentally apostate and, therefore, all such writings of men were to be avoided.
Perhaps this is the difference between Reformed/Presbyterian and Baptists views of tradition. The Reformed and Presbyterians like Calvin see themselves in the main of theological tradition going back to the apostles. Baptists, on the other hand, in order to justify their rewrites of the Reformed Confessions, have had to skirt tradition in order to advance hallmark views like believer’s baptism.