06-15-2008, 10:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Semper Fidelis  Quote:
Originally Posted by Presbyterian Deacon Quote:
Originally Posted by Semper Fidelis I obviously disagree with the notion that reprobation is on the basis of bare permission for that would undermine the idea of Providence altogether.
I do think, however, that there is a distinct difference in the character of workmanship and activity toward the elect in comparison to the reprobate. There is asymmetry and not symmetry. God is the author and finisher of our faith. Christ is interceding for us and ensuring that He who began a good work in us will see it to completion. There is not a corollary in the Scripture with respect to God's activity toward the reprobate. He is not the author of sin and He is not given credit for man's rebellion in the way He is given for the redeemed man's obedience unto Him. | Thank you. I appreciate the comment about asymmetry rather than symmetry, but a few verses come to mind that make me wonder. 
Peter speaks of those who "stumble at the Word...where unto they were appointed..." And Jude speaks of those who were "before of old marked out for this condemnation..." and Paul talks about "vessel of wrath prepared for destruction..." So, it seems to me that God is indeed active in the reprobation of the lost. | I didn't state he was inactive. I already noted that it was not a bare permission. My point is that there is no 4 chapter corollary to Romans 5-8 that speaks definitively about God's activity toward the reprobate. There is no "golden chain" of reprobation where the sinner sees God impelling Him toward sin and judgment. We need to recognize the very special care and attention that God pays toward His own and not assume that, on the reverse side of the coin, he's doing the exact opposite to every reprobate. Even Paul's language about the two vessels in Romans 9 is distincitively different in terms of care and attention. One vessel is being lavished with attention while the other is being endured. | Right, I get that. That is what WCF 5. 4 says: Quote: |
IV. The almighty power, unsearchable wisdom, and infinite goodness of God, so far manifest themselves in his providence, that it extendeth itself even to the first Fall, and all other sins of angels and men, and that not by a bare permission, but such as hath joined with it a most wise and powerful bounding, and otherwise ordering and governing of them, in a manifold dispensation, to his own holy ends; yet so, as the sinfulness thereof proceedeth only from the creature, and not from God; who being most holy and righteous, neither is nor can be the author or approver of sin.
| I guess my "sticking point" right now is: Though we affirm it is not a matter of "bare permission," and that there is no "golden chain of reprobation," yet there definitely seems to be a sense of God's direct agency in the reprobation of the non-elect. Can we know "where the line is?" (so to speak). Or is this one of those areas that are a "mystery?" "How far" does Scripture allow us go in our understanding of God's agency in reprobation?
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