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Daniel Ritchie · #18 (**permalink**) 06-13-2008, 11:10 AM

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Originally Posted by Amazing Grace

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Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie

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I just do not see how you can say this Daniel. If it was, Luther et al would not have tried to reform it.

Well it is the same as trying to reform an apostatizing denomination like the Church of England. The CoE is a scandolously corrupt church, but it has not by its confession anathematized the gospel. And thus it is still part of the visible institutional church. But the same cannot be said of Rome.

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Now Daniel, are you about to say that Rome did not 'officialy' believe in a trinitarian doctrine until 1215?

It may have officially formulated the doctrine in 1215, but this is not the same thing as saying that it anathematized a belief in the Trinity before that date. Before Trent many Papists did not believe the gospel, and so they were a scandalously corrupt body, but at Trent it became official church policy to anathematize the gospel of Christ.

Sharpen your pencil Daniel. You have been diluted to believe this lie. That is like saying Honorious was not a heretic until he physically wrote down his erroneous belief about the wills of Christ. It is exactly the same thing Daniel. If it takes a formally written papal bull pronoucement from the sofa of peter, then one cannot be sure what they believe prior to this. Ask any rc and they will tell you I am correct in my asessment. Seriously, if you can get close enough to the leper colony without becoming ill, go and ask a priest or one who would know and see what they say. Instead of looking through skewed lenses of this, why not go right to the horses mouth. I have, and they laughed so hard I thought I would have to do CPR.

We are not talking about individuals, but about ecclesiastical bodies. For instance, there are many apostates in the CoE, but we cannot say the CoE is apostate until it officially adopts apostasy as its confession. Baptism by a heretic is irregular but valid; baptism by an apostate communion is invalid.