Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie  Quote:
Originally Posted by Amazing Grace Quote:
Originally Posted by Daniel Ritchie
No, because the minister may be ungodly (not regenerate) and still be lawfully ordained, so that by his confession he is a minister of the gospel in a true church of Christ.
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Then again I will call you on this Daniel. If you believe this error, then none of us have been baptized by a lawfully ordained, whatever that means, minister since the rcc laid hands on all the first gen reformers. And please do not go to trent became the deciding line of this. I think Greco played that card, but alas, my straight beats them there pair of dueces.. | Rome was a true church prior to Trent, so your concern is not relevant. |
I just do not see how you can say this Daniel. If it was, Luther et al would not have tried to reform it. I am 100% certain that there was no difference in Rome from probably Justyn to Trent. A formal declaration against the reformers does not a church make!!!!!. What is the pithy saying I heard regarding this? They anathamized the gospel @ Trent. Therefore prior to December 13th, 1545 they were a true church. But during the next 18 years until the canons of Trent were formally pronounced, the 'truthiness' began to wane until December 4th 1563 when they became a synogogue of satan. Therefore anyone baptized in the rcc prior to Dec 13th 1545 is ok, but anyone baptized during the council becomes suspect, and yet further anyone baptized after December 13th 1545 was not validly baptized. Inless of course they were baptized by someone who received the sacrament prior to 1545, then they are ok.
Ok Daniel, Just one question you are asked to answer.
In 1215, the fourth lateran council convened. Canon 1 States:
CANON 1
Text: We firmly believe and openly confess that there is only one true God, eternal and immense, omnipotent, unchangeable, incomprehensible, and ineffable, Father, Son, and Holy Ghost; three Persons indeed but one essense, substance, or nature absolutely simple; the Father (proceeding) from no one, but the Son from the Father only, and the Holy Ghost equally from both, always without beginning and end. The Father begetting, the Son begotten, and the Holy Ghost proceeding; consubstantial and coequal, co-omnipotent and coeternal, the one principle of the universe, Creator of all things invisible and visible, spiritual and corporeal, who from the beginning of time and by His omnipotent power made from nothing creatures both spiritual and corporeal, angelic, namely, and mundane, and then human, as it were, common, composed of spirit and body. The devil and the other demons were indeed created by God good by nature but they became bad through themselves; man, however, sinned at the suggestion of the devil. This Holy Trinity in its common essense undivided and in personal properties divided, through Moses, the holy prophets, and other servants gave to the human race at the most opportune intervals of time the doctrine of salvation.
And finally, Jesus Christ, the only begotten Son of God made flesh by the entire Trinity, conceived with the co-operation of the Holy Ghost of Mary ever Virgin, made true man, composed of a rational soul and human flesh, one Person in two natures, pointed out more clearly the way of life. Who according to His divinity is immortal and impassable, according to His humanity was made passable and mortal, suffered on the cross for the salvation of the human race, and being dead descended into hell, rose from the dead, and ascended into heaven. But He descended in soul, arose in flesh, and ascended equally in both; He will come at the end of the world to judge the living and the dead and will render to the reprobate and to the elect according to their works. Who all shall rise with their own bodies which they now have that they may receive according to their merits, whether good or bad, the latter eternal punishment with the devil, the former eternal glory with Christ.
Now Daniel, are you about to say that Rome did not 'officialy' believe in a trinitarian doctrine until 1215?