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Originally Posted by austinbrown2  Well, that's certainly true, Davidius. My conscience has doubts. But it has doubts because it doesn't know for sure, because the issue, at least according to the majority of voices here, is subjective. That being said, nobody has really interacted with the logic of my refocused argument, which I think is objective (Either it is correct, or it is not). In the light of my reasoning, one or two things are stated:
(1) They say, "If you take this road, you'll have to throw out a lot of stuff, and that my friend, seems absurd, no?" | The most effective reductio ad absurdum requires that the line of deduction be reduced to a logical contradiction. To say "If we get rid of fantasy games, we also have to get rid of fiction novels" does not create an actual contradiction; it merely forces the person, if it is proven that the two are like cases, to get rid of both fantasy games and fiction novels for the sake of logical consistency. One who disagrees with you would have to be willing to admit that, if you are right, all such games, books, and jobs which require people to be familiar with these things are evil. Quote:
(2) Each person must decide whether it seems right in their own eyes (Which, appears to me anyway, to beg the question).
Here, look at it this way. Would anyone really suggest that playing a game built around raping women or abusing children is subjective and open to personal conscience? Of course not. But! as someone will surely say, that is obviously wrong. In that case, I simply ask, did not God drive out nations that practiced sorcery (and all that went with it), and did not God require his covenant people to be different from those who practiced such things, and aren't we to share the mind of God who abhores such practices. Therefore, is it a jump to think that Christians are oblilgated to avoid games that adopt pictures/terminological concepts that borrow ideas from these realities?
| Whether there is a jump involved is the heart of the question. You mention rape and child abuse, assuming that they are equated with the "sorcery" found in games such as D&D. I, on the other hand, don't believe that the Old Testament is referring to casting ice bolts, fireballs, healing spells, and weapon enchantments when it denounces sorcery as an abomination. If anything, my conscience would probably not permit me to play as a Necromancer, but other than that, I think you need to show that the "magic" in these games is the kind of thing that the OT is denouncing. I would assume, however, that it's talking about raising the dead, putting curses on people, etc. Quote: |
That question seems more objective to me. Grymir has stated that Magic the Gathering and D&D are mere childs play compared to the real thing. Ok, fair enough. That's potentially a fruitful direction. Or someone might say that the Christian simply deconstructs the idea and relegates it to the arena of mere fiction, pure fantasy. I'm not so sure that holds water, however. For if someone is "casting a spell" "scrying", surely there is a prima facie collaboration with something real in our world. The same is true with mana, shamans, witches, casting enchantments, utilizing talismans, and pretty much every other imaginable pagan, magical tool or concept.
| I think I understand what you're saying but could you explain the bolded sentence for me? Also, you have asserted a "prima facie collaboration" (whatever that is). How can you prove that there must be one? Quote:
So anyway, isn't this issue far more objective in those instances? I'd love to arrive at a conclusion that presents a sound rationale for playing these games, but so far, I see no way out. After all, everyone would agree that engaging in something defacto sin is sin, regardless of whether one has faith that is it permissable and good.
So that's where I'm at.
Austin
| Well, if you really want my opinion, I believe that it's objectively a matter of liberty, which would mean that it's not sinful. What you need to do, I think, is prove that the activity in these games, in every case is the same thing that we find denounced in the scriptures. Words can sometimes be the source of equivocation, and we don't want to build an unscriptural wall based on an equivocation. For example, we use the word "magic" to describe the card tricks that the owner of this board does for a hobby, but I assume that you wouldn't label this as abominable sorcery (or would you?).
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Davidius
Husband of Emilia
Member: First Reformed Presbyterian Church of Durham (RPCNA) - Durham, NC
Student: University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill, German Literature and Classics
This may explain the old adage about Baptists being Methodists with shoes, and Presbyterians being Baptists who can read. To round out the adage, Lutherans might qualify as Presbyterians who drink to excess, and Episcopalians as Lutherans who know when to say when. - D.G. Hart
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