Originally Posted by Ivanhoe

But at the same time I really doubt that I can go up to Billary or Barak Osama and say, "Look. Look at the natural order. Look at your conscience. Don't you think you should stop the baby-killing in America?" His/her conscience is seared with a hot iron.

Secondly, I honestly, in good conscience, cannot meet unbelievers on "common, neutral ground." I really cannot concieve of political ethics apart from the Resurrected and Ascended King Jesus. Maybe I should, but then again I do not have cognitive rest on the subject.

Don't get me wrong. I have benefited from Natural Law theologians. I really do like reading Roman catholics. St Thomas has been very helpful to me and in some ways I do appreciate and draw from his social ethic.