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Originally Posted by Brad  Quote:
Originally Posted by DMcFadden Quote:
Originally Posted by JBaldwin
Good point. We often give cash for that very reason.
| Brad, the sarcasm is unnecessary. As a matter of fact, some people on this forum are willing to separate and form a new denomination for reasons of fairly minor differences in belief or practice. Are you seriously telling me that not contributing financially to one's church is such a matter of privacy and indifference that it does not matter when selecting an elder or deacon?
I never framed the issue in terms of fencing the table, but did suggest that finance is as reliable a barometer of obedience as many other things. And, yes, unresolved issues of anger at someone in the church, a gambling problem, and many other sin issues do often manifest themselves in a discontinuation of giving.
Again, remember, my comment was that I would be informed (as a pastor) IFF a person quit giving or was not giving, NOT how much they gave. And, yes, I have known people who attended regularly, taught Sunday school and boasted of "freedom in the Lord" to give nothing to the church so that they could pour it into their home improvement projects. | Dennis, I meant no offense, just pointing out that a record of how much a man gives was not as easy in the olden days, and yet they were able to determine the qualifications of officers or the need for ministry to individuals without it. Perhaps they simply asked the man about his giving. We would assume that a man nominated for office would at least have the quality of character to answer honestly, would we not?
I don't believe that it is necessary to 'preach' giving to the Church. Preach the Gospel, and giving will manifest itself among those who believe. Quote:
2Co 9:6 But this I say, He that soweth sparingly shall reap also sparingly; and he that soweth bountifully shall reap also bountifully.
2Co 9:7 Let each man do according as he hath purposed in his heart: not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.
| There is, it seems to me, an intimation of privacy in this passage, in that each man is to purpose in his own heart in such a way as to give ungrudgingly and not out of a burdensome sense of duty, but cheerfully. What comprises cheerful giving will certainly be different from one man to the next.
I've been in Churches where tithing was preached as a duty with regularity, and the effect seemed the opposite of that desired; folks were offended and gave less. I've been in Churches where a duty to tithe was never mentioned, and yet the level of giving was high, because the Gospel was preached and believed, and the members took responsibility for the work the body was involved in.
I've also known of Churches where some officers had the idea they needed to see members' tax returns to determine their level of giving. That's nuts. What the scriptures say is for each to give cheerfully. What Ananias did was lie about the amount. It had nothing to do with the amount itself, it was his to do with what he wanted. That event was not recorded to imply that Church officers should be monitoring income and giving levels of members. I personally would be offended if an Elder came to me concerned about my spiritual condition based on information he had gleaned from the Church treasury records. It would be a sad statement that he had to find out about problems through a bean-counter's book rather than by knowing me well enough to notice trouble, and having the courage to ask me directly, and the trust to believe my answer. |
Thank you for these thoughts, Brad.
I agree that a preacher should not harp on tithing and giving. As a preacher I dread giving those messages. But at the same time, if I am going to preach God's Word in entirety, I am going to have to speak about it at some point. Honestly, I wish someone had taught me about tithing earlier in my life.
Here's a question for everyone. Should a pastor approach a sheep who has stopped attending church? Should a pastor approach a sheep who has stopped partaking of the bread and the cup? Why shouldn't the pastor approach a sheep whose giving has suddenly dropped off?
A pastor is a servant, not a lord. He can only serve you as much as you allow him. If you do not allow the pastor to hold you accountable with your giving then he can't. Just like if you do not allow him to hold you accountable for your attendance he can't. But he can be a valuable asset to anyone who wants to be held accountable for their spiritual duties.