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Originally Posted by ColdSilverMoon  The problem with the view that there was no death before the Fall is that there is no Scripture to support it. |
Again, Romans 5 doesn't say "such and such
kind" of death. It says
death.
The death. Universal. Death wasn't here before sin brought it.
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It also defies logic ... is ... scientifically irrational.
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Herein lies the problem. You're trying to determine pre-fall conditions, by post fall conditions. You see, I believe
presuppositionally and according to the
Analogy of Scripture that death came through sin. I don't have to seek post fall "Science" to read into narrative of pre-fall in order to ascertain how things worked. Instead, I can just believe God's Word. God doesn't have to tell me about everything that
did happen. For example, I don't see either an example of something dying or
not dying in the narrative. But you know what? I don't need that. Why? Because Romans 5 tells me when and how death came into the world. I trust in it, before I trust in Science's speculations on God's pre-fall order.
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To specifically address some things that were said:
Joshua - to somehow argue that by eating fruit only...
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Where did I use the term
only?
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... there was no death is both directly against Scripture ("every green herb" along with "every tree") and scientifically irrational. Fruits were once "living" with billions of cells each. The cells had to die for the fruit to ripen and of course when eaten. Are cells not considered living? If not, where do you draw the line between living and not living? It is an impossible distinction to make. Thus there was, without doubt, death before the Fall, as the very least on the cellular level.
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Again, you must have missed when I wrote:
Furthermore, I think Creation Research Society or somebody has distinguished between "life" as found in plants, and that of life that is found in animals and humans
But a couple of corrections need to be made. Answers in Genesis, not CRS. You as well as I both know that Scripture does not classify plant "death" in the same manner as animal or human death. I hate to be a copy and paste kind of guy (Sorry Jacob!), but I'll leave you with this, and I'm pretty much done with this thread as a civilian participator.
The Fall: a cosmic catastrophe Quote:
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... has absolutely no Scriptural basis, and I would argue is thoroughly anti-Biblical in nature ... you have no Biblical basis to support your claim, and it defies basic logic.
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You keep making these statements, and yet it's
you, my friend, who is without a
biblical foundation. In fact, I'm arguing for the Biblical understanding, as opposed to the post-fall import of logic into pre-fall conditions. I know it's difficult (impossible) to discern my tone, so please know I'm not upset, or riled up, etc.
To you as well.
Have a good Lord's Day and you guys don't act up or KILL the thread to DEATH.
