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Old 03-14-2008, 04:02 PM
k.seymore k.seymore is offline.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Contra_Mundum View Post
Well, The problem could just as easily be on my end. So we each shoulder our own share of the blame.

Quote:
Originally Posted by k.seymore View Post
Do you believe that the word of an authority is law even if that word did not contain "all provision of enforcement, and penalty for violation"?
Yes, the word of authority is law. But think about that for just a minute. WHY is it LAW? It's LAW for the very reasons stated: the "voice" is that of enforcement, I think you'd agree. What does Paul say? Rom 5:13, "For sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law." Do you hear what he's saying? Compare to Rom 4:15, "For the law brings wrath, but where there is no law there is no transgression." WRATH=enforcement. If no one is ever punished, then the law is not only toothless, it is no law at all.

Some old, funny laws stay on the books, as "quaint". Its humorous to see a law against "cow-tipping" or some such, and to see the fines or hours in the stocks assessed. But these are, for all intents and purposes, no laws at all.

As for the penalty, 1) to break the covenant was to be cast off, and to bring down the curses of the covenant. God was not obligated to stipulate for his subordinate enforcers of temporal punishments, case law that would run the gamut. He gave them a whole bunch of cases, and expected them to adjudicate untold cases and kinds based on those few examples.

In the example you gave, there was apparently some question as to whether blasphemy was ever a capital crime. The case was serious enough, that it went through the whole court system (Ex 18:13-26) all the way to Moses, who took it to God himself for a final statement. This case rather shows how justice was supposed to work in Israel, if there was insufficient data (for whatever reason) to make a determination.* Perhaps God deliberately left out a statement earlier on how severe a judgment against blasphemy could be meted out, so that the people would come to him, to see his own statement on the matter.

Bottom line, in the end what do we have? Law, enforcement (both ultimate and subordinate), and a maximum penalty. So, the "case" demonstrates the very point. In order to make the law truly effectual, the penalty window also needed to be stipulated.

Hope this has cleared my point up.


*Note how in regard to other laws (cases involving the 1st, 2nd, 4th, 5th, 6th, 7th, 8th, 9th) the maximum was so ordered in severe cases.
Yeah, I can definitely agree with you if thats what you meant originally. I agree that when a person in authority says something it is law, and their authority implies there will be enforcement and penalties. Although I'm not sure it conveys anything to say that a law is not a law unless it contains all penaties and all enforcement, and also a kings word is law and his authority itself implies all penalties and enforcement. What word stated by an actual authority wouldn't then be a valid law? The two statements seem (from my view) to cancel each other out.

But now that I think a little more about it I see by your example of "quaint laws" what you might be referring to. You believe that laws such as these have no enforcement or penalties and thus are no laws at all. I understand what you are saying, but I've been framing it the opposite way. If an authority's words imply they are the enforcer and penalizer, then it doesn't erase the kings authority to choose what the enforcement or penalties are just because the law is quaint. those quaint laws are actual laws which imply the enforcement and penalties that authority of those over the realm in which they were given would dish out. Except for we "know" that no authority in our day would inflict any penalties for breaking them. That doesn't make them non-laws in the legal sense. Authorities are in the position of power to not penalize, not us. It is also a de facto authority of juries in our country to not enforce any US Law by jury nullification, but that doesn't make all human-made laws in our country not valid just because those enforcing them don't inflict penalties. So, although I think I agree with much of what you were getting at, I hope it is also clear why I was using language that sometimes sounds the opposite of what you are saying.
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