View Single Post
  #11 (permalink)  
Old 03-10-2008, 11:42 PM
Contra_Mundum's Avatar
Contra_Mundum Contra_Mundum is offline.
"da wabbit"
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: CentralLakeMI
Posts: 4,149
Thanks: 22
Thanked 1,568 Times in 580 Posts
Aaron,
You will get two different answers here--from the Reformed side, and the Reformed Baptist side.

The Ref. Bapt. (if I may speak for some of them) will often say that Abraham actually has two covenants--one a gracious covenant, made only with him, taken up again in the New Covenant (Eternal Cov), the other a wholly secular set of promises tied to the promised land and the genetic stock of Messiah. They argue for all-and-nothing: that Esau is only a party to a set of secular promises, of which circumcision is a covenant-sign.

Traditional Reformed theology makes no such distinction in the covenant itself. The distinction we make is "internal-external" to one covenant. Hence, a person (whether OT or NT Israel, that is the church under either age) is brought visibly into the "outward administration" of the covenant of grace. "In this respect," as the West. Conf. puts it, he is IN the covenant--whether by faith or not. However, those who have no faith exercised in the covenant are not participators in the substance of that covenant--which has all to do with Christ, and the benefits of his salvation. The typical (visible) elements are designed to point to internal truths--which, nevertheless, fail to manifest in those who are not elect.

This is what we (T-R) find in the case of Esau, as with so many other faithless Israelites in Scripture, as well as seen in our own experience. Church members, who none-the-less depart from us. Why? Because they never were truly of us, they did not have the grace of regeneration, they did not have Faith in God.
__________________
Rev. Bruce G. Buchanan
ChainOLakes Presbyterian Church, CentralLake, MI

Made both Lord and Christ--Jesus, the Destroyer
Acts 2:36 - 1 Cor. 10:9-10 & 15:22-26 - Hebrews 2:9-15 - 1 John 3:8 - James 4:12

When posting friends, kindly bear those words of earthly wisdom in mind:

Oh, that God the gift would give us
To see ourselves as others see us.
--Robert Burns, 1786 (modernized) ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ ♦ Click to get: Board Rules -- Signature Requirements -- Suggestions? --
The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Contra_Mundum For This Useful Post:
armourbearer (03-10-2008), Barnpreacher (03-11-2008), holyfool33 (03-11-2008), J. David Kear (03-11-2008), Seb (03-11-2008), Southern Presbyterian (03-10-2008)