I'm not trying to be contrary, but when you say you want to ignore the creeds are you not then in essence saying that we should ignore church history on this particular subject? How can we do that? If we cannot look back through the annals of church history and find out what the church fathers had to say about this then we are doing ourselves a great disservice. Certainly they, like Rev. Buchanan just did, used biblical texts to form their thoughts on this matter.

I guess what I'm saying is it sounds like you are looking for people to just pull out proof texts on the subject so they can be shot down by modern criticism. But if our church fathers believed the fall of Satan was true and biblical (x) amount of years ago, then who are we to argue?

__________________
Ryan Barnhart - Pastor of OGBC
Husband to a beautiful wife, Father to two beautiful girls
Student at Greenville Presbyterian Theological Seminary - B.D.

"I confess to you, that if I can but live and die serving the Lord Jesus, it will make no difference to me whether I am eaten by Cannibals or by worms. And in the Great Day my Resurrection body will rise as fair as yours in the likeness of our risen Redeemer." - John Paton