Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny_redeemed  Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperFideles If you notice what is held forth in baptism is admission to the visible Church... | I would like to follow up on this. Is not the Church the body of Christ? Even if we say that it is the "visible" body of Christ, it is nonetheless the body of Christ. Right?? Again, I am just working through this issue. I do not have any of this figured out.
But it seems to me that if they are really in the visible Church, then they are in Christ, his body, in some sense. NOT in a saving way in any sense. But my thought is that we can still say that this person is still in Christ. What are your thoughts???  |
I think your question is a good one, and one that I myself am asking. I'm not sure how one can say one thing but then really mean another. I find it a bit duplicitous. Which in the other thread led me to ask a similar question as to the means of grace. It seems to me that either they do convey grace or they don't. If the latter we probably should find another term to describe them.
Likewise with your question. If people "aren't" in Christ via their baptism then we probably shouldn't say that they are - perhaps we shoudl simply say "they could be in Christ IF they later believe".
Really it seems to me that the question you are asking, and the issue that arose on the other thread are the same. After all - isn't it supposed to be the Means of Grace that unite us to Christ (namely Baptism)? It seems to me that these are issues that ought to be squared away. I think I know the logic that a Lutheran would use to answer these issues, but this is a reformed board and I more curious in how the reformed would approach the issue.
Well, I don't know the answer to your question but I hope you'll keep asking. These are the same kinds of things I'm hoping to learn from others on this board - how these seemingly contradictory concepts are reconciled.