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Originally Posted by armourbearer  Quote:
Originally Posted by Ivan I believe there is a point in time when someone becomes a Christian. Some people can't point to that date and time. Others know exactly when they came to trust only in Christ.
Does that mean that for those who know when they become Christians there is no further spiritual growth? We all know that is nonsense! Whether we know the time and place or not, there is spiritual growth for all our lives and that growth will continue until we see Jesus face to face. | Ivan, I think "point in time" conversion creates an impossible working environment for pastoral ministry. Hence I fully concur with your last sentence, that spiritual growth is for all of life. We are told to make our calling and election sure by giving diligence to add to our faith. Insofar as we do so we are being renewed or converted daily.
One of the major pastoral problems associated with the "punctiliar" conversion paradigm is its tendency to create a mindset which elevates experience over instruction. Rather than practice being made to conform to principle, it is usually the case that the "conversion" experience becomes the rule for distinguishing truth and falsehood.
The great strength of the "linear" conversion concept, as taught by the old standards, is that it is fully in keeping with everything our Lord has taught regarding the kingdom of God and its hidden but progressive nature. This leaves room for the humble practice of self-examination and self-denial as a part of true kingdom conversion. |
I like it when you have the time to type out a bit more.
We tend to be "either or" types these days. I obviously reject the notion that conversion is devoid of religious "experience" but it is experience itself that is sought after these days.
Even among folks that state they reject revivalism, the idea is still inherent in many to see regeneration and conversion as this "punctiliar event" as you called it. That is, that a person has arrived at saving faith. It's one of the reasons I reject the basic Baptistic understanding of the sacrament as it seeks to tie a sign that is meant to signify all the benefits of union with Christ and say that, in the profession, the person has attained to them and we now apply the sign.
In fact, we have been saved in order that we might not only be justified but be conformed, ever daily, to that image.
I remind my Baptist brethren at Church regularly that, when we sin, it is not as if we have fallen completely from Grace. I know that sounds very basic to some but we act precisely that this is the case. If our Baptism signified something inside of us, which is why the Church waited until we professed something, then it is natural for many to be concerned that what they thought they had when they professed was an illusion. There is a tension present to re-capture the strength of emotion they felt once that they might be assured that they were not self-deceived.
Hence, there is a natural tendency for their to be a "second plank" that restores the confidence now lost. Altar calls and re-baptisms fill this void.
Yet, what people need to be reminded of is that the Gospel converted them to a path of redemption. The Gospel says to stricken sinners that Christ died for you while you were His enemies and He will not forsake you now that you are his friends. He intends to save you to the uttermost. You need not return to the point of conversion but you need simply to turn to the Cross and believe upon Christ! Remember your baptism in which it was promised to
you that Christ saves to the uttermost all who believe upon Him.
When Christians start to understand that faith is variously weak or strong depending upon the person and upon the season of their life they will stop looking for emotions as a substitute. For faith, it is, that clings to Christ ever. It is a faith that ever comes to Him as a beggar. It is a faith that is able to cry out, even when you don't
feel converted, and simply says: "I believe! Help though my unbelief!"