The PuritanBoard - View Single Post

weinhold · #19 (**permalink**) 08-20-2007, 05:17 PM

Folks, I hesitate to post my response since it really is tangential to the issue of Job's historicity. That reservation aside, I think that what we are discussing here is more central to the message of Job itself. Moderators, feel free to relocate these posts if you find that more expedient.

As prolegomena to what I am about to write, please recognize that I am no Hebrew scholar, nor do I consider my opinions about Job solidified in any way. I have simply offered a reading that I believe makes sense, although I continue to have reservations about its coherence.

I suppose that I should begin first by noting that in my reading of Job, an essential element of the reader's interaction with the story must be an elicited reaction of indignation. It seems at least plausible that the Job author(s) intended the reader to sympathize with Job's righteous suffering and to question, as Job does, the justice of God. One who fails to approach the text in this fashion, it seems to me, does not fully engage the text. That being said, my reading also affirms God's vindication of Himself, recognizing that such vindication seems to operate despite the evidence against Him (i.e. Job's suffering), not because of it. Such a reading, I think, enters into Job's suffering, experiences it fully, but continues to uphold the justice of God, although it remains beyond the understanding of the Job author(s).

Let's look at a few responses to my admittedly hasty original remarks:

Quote:

God's wager? There was nothing uncertain of the outcome.

Also, I don't think God replaced the children. He simply doubled Job's seed, as he'd doubled everything else that was taken. And, if we believe that God is right, holy, good, and just in all that He does, then we wouldn't say He was treating Job's children as expendable.

And also:

Quote:

I always have been so blessed by the fact that Job 42:10 says that 'the LORD gave Job twice as much as he had before" yet he only gave him the exact number of children than he had had previously; indicating that God was not replacing twofold the ones he had like he did with the cattle and camels, but simply doubling his blessing. The original children were still his, or as Matthew Henry put it - 'the children that were dead were not lost, but gone before to a better world'. So the passage is saying the exact opposite as you indicated - the children were not expendable, and they were not replaced. He was simply given an additional 10 children to double his first blessing.

.

In both responses, Joshua and Ginny quibble with my terminology -- fair enough. Joshua quibbles with "wager," "replaces," and "expendable," while Ginny quibbles only with "expendable" and "replaces." What has probably happened in our conversation is that certain connotative meanings with "wager" and "expendable" have caused a miscommunication. That's bad rhetoric on my part; allow me to clarify. At the risk of even worse rhetoric, I will hazard the loss of your attention by quoting a lengthy reference from the OED, with abridged examples:

Quote:

[a. AF. wageure (= F. gageure), f. wager WAGE

I. 1. A solemn pledge or undertaking. Obs.

1306 Exec. Sir S. Fraser in Pol. Songs (1839) 218 A wajour he made, so hit wes y-told, Ys heved of to smhyte ef me him brohte in hold wat so bytyde.
2. Something (esp. a sum of money) laid down and hazarded on the issue of an uncertain event; a stake. Now rare exc. in phr. to lay, win, lose a wager.
1596 SHAKES. Tam. Shr. V. ii. 69 Hort. Content, what's the wager?
b. The prize to be won in a contest. Obs.

c1450 Brut ccxliv. 378 For our archers..schet at day for a wager.
fig. a1548 HALL Chron., Hen. VI, 167 For Kyng Henry..and Richard duke of Yorke..wresteled for the game, and strove for the wager.
3. An agreement or contract under which each of the parties promises to give money or its equivalent to the other according to the issue of an uncertain event; a betting transaction.

a1548 HALL Chron., Hen. VIII. 7 Certayn noble men made a wager to runne at the rynge. 1876 ROGERS Pol. Econ. i. 9 If one man makes a wager with another, the occurrence of the event on which the wager depends, does involve loss and gain.
b. an equal, even wager, an even chance. Obs.

c. to lie upon the wager: to be at stake. Obs.

1590 SPENSER F.Q. I. iii. 12 Full fast she fled, ne euer lookt behind, As if her life vpon the wager lay.
d. An act of putting to hazard, a risk.

1855 MACAULAY Hist. Eng. xviii. IV. 220 Nothing could be more natural than that, for the very smallest chance of recovering the three kingdoms..he should be willing to stake what was not his own, the honour of the French arms..[etc.]. To a French statesman such a wager might well appear in a different light.
e. A contest for a prize.

1615 MARKHAM Country Contentm. I. vii. 102 If you will prepare him [a greyhound] for match and wadger.
4. Something on the issue of which bets are or may be laid; the subject of a bet or bets.

a1586 SIDNEY Arcadia II. vii. (1912) 193 Their ruine was the wager of the others contention.
II. 5. Law (now Hist.). The action of WAGE v. (4a, b). a. wager of law: an offer to make oath of innocence or non-indebtedness, to be supported by the oaths of eleven compurgators. b. wager of battle: a challenge by a defendant to decide his guilt or innocence by single combat.

a. 1521-2 Ir. Act 13 Hen. VIII, c. 2 (1621) 73 The partie or parties defendants shall haue none essoine, protection, ne law wager. 1533 MORE Debell. Salem II. xv. 33 Lyke as in the wageour of a lawe, they shall not swere that the defendaunt oweth not the money, but that they byleue that he swereth treuth. 1536 Ir. Act 28 Hen. VIII, c. 5 (1621) 102 Wherein no wager of law, essoine ne protection shall lye.

III. 6. attrib. and Comb., in sense ‘done for a wager’, as wager-fight, -shooting, -smoking; also wager-boat, a light racing sculling-boat used in contests between single scullers; wager-cup, a ‘cup’ offered as a prize in a contest; wager-hall, ? the hall of the imaginary guild of betting men; wager-insurance = wager-policy; wager-office, a place for recording wagers; wager-policy, an insurance-policy partaking of the nature of a wager.

1844 ALB. SMITH Adv. Mr. Ledbury ix. (1886) 29 [He] began talking about the sweet wager-boat which his friend..had bought at Searle's. 1865 DICKENS Mut. Fr. IV. i, It was an amateur sculler..in so light a boat that the Rogue remarked: ‘A little less on you, and you'd a'most ha' been a Wagerbut.

Right away, we can certainly eliminate definitions 2a, 2b, 3a, 3b, 3d, 3e, and 4 on the grounds of Joshua's objection. Money was not at stake between God and Satan, nor was there "chance" of the sort that exists in horse-racing. In other words, there was no "bet" between God and Satan. We are then left with definitions 1, 3c, 5a, 5b, and, if qualified, 6. My reading of Job, then, understands God's "wager" with Satan as His defense of His own worthiness to be worshipped. This is what lies at stake in Job's response to the affliction of Satan. Will he continue to worship, despite injustice?

Now let's take a look at "expendable," again from the OED:

Quote:

Also expendible. [f. prec. + -ABLE.] That may be expended; considered as not worth preserving or salvaging; normally consumed in use; spec. of military personnel: that may be allowed to be sacrificed to achieve a military objective. Hence as n., an expendable person or object.

1805 W. TAYLOR in Ann. Rev. III. 240 That property should be dividable, transferrable, and expendable. 1942 W. L. WHITE They were Expendable 7 In a war anything can be expendable money or gasoline or equipment or most usually men. 1942 Reader's Digest Oct. 40/1 They would be considered in part as expendable ammunition much as the Navy considers its PT boats. 1942 Topeka Jrnl. 9 Nov. 4/4 When an army is retreating, a small force is left behind to cover the retreat and be sacrificed to the enemy. They are ‘expendables’. 1956 A. TOYNBEE Historian's Approach to Religion xix. 266 The true purpose of an institution is simply to serve as a means for promoting the welfare of human beings. In truth it is not sacrosanct but is ‘expendible’. 1966 D. HOLBROOK Flesh Wounds 81 We're expendable, see, so you want to watch out. 1966 Aviation Week & Space Technol. 5 Dec. 22/2 With five years of supplies and all the expendables, including a crew.

However unsettling the connotations of "expendable" may be, I think the definition fits. The pedagogical objective of Job's suffering into truth and God's vindication of His worthiness to be worshipped both seem to allow the sacrifice of Job's children. They are consumed in God's use. They are considered not worth preserving or salvaging. As for the hope of resurrection, it may be worth considering whether we can derive such a notion from Job, and whether there is evidence that Job himself had any notion of it. Such an investigation is outside my discipline, but Job 14 seems to be an indication:

Quote:

14:1 “Man who is born of a woman
is few of days and full of trouble.
2 He comes out like a flower and withers;
he flees like a shadow and continues not.
3 And do you open your eyes on such a one
and bring me into judgment with you?
4 Who can bring a clean thing out of an unclean?
There is not one.
5 Since his days are determined,
and the number of his months is with you,
and you have appointed his limits that he cannot pass,
6 look away from him and leave him alone, [1]
that he may enjoy, like a hired hand, his day.

7 “For there is hope for a tree,
if it be cut down, that it will sprout again,
and that its shoots will not cease.
8 Though its root grow old in the earth,
and its stump die in the soil,
9 yet at the scent of water it will bud
and put out branches like a young plant.
10 But a man dies and is laid low;
man breathes his last, and where is he?
11 As waters fail from a lake
and a river wastes away and dries up,
12 so a man lies down and rises not again;
till the heavens are no more he will not awake
or be roused out of his sleep.
13 Oh that you would hide me in Sheol,
that you would conceal me until your wrath be past,
that you would appoint me a set time, and remember me!
14 If a man dies, shall he live again?
All the days of my service I would wait,
till my renewal [2] should come.
15 You would call, and I would answer you;
you would long for the work of your hands.
16 For then you would number my steps;
you would not keep watch over my sin;
17 my transgression would be sealed up in a bag,
and you would cover over my iniquity.

18 “But the mountain falls and crumbles away,
and the rock is removed from its place;
19 the waters wear away the stones;
the torrents wash away the soil of the earth;
so you destroy the hope of man.
20 You prevail forever against him, and he passes;
you change his countenance, and send him away.
21 His sons come to honor, and he does not know it;
they are brought low, and he perceives it not.
22 He feels only the pain of his own body,
and he mourns only for himself."

Footnotes
[1] 14:6 Probable reading; Hebrew look away from him, that he may cease
[2] 14:14 Or relief

As for my use of "replaced," I am happy to accept your qualification without even consulting the dictionary. God does indeed provide Job with the exact number of children he had lost, not double as with his property. As Christians, we salve the trauma of our reading Job with our understanding of the resurrection. The question remains, however, whether we can gain such perspective from Job itself, and further, whether Job himself benefited from such consolation.

I conclude with the words of Daniel Russ, whose essay on Job I highly recommend:

Quote:

Like Lazarus being raised from the dead, Job's restoration is a mixed blessing, for he cannot know that he will not lose everything again. He must live the rest of his live, one hundred and forty years, knowing what it is to lose everything. Yes, he knows as never before that he can trust God, even if God kills him. But he also knows that the love of God does not preclude untold suffering. Perhaps the final mystery is that the love of God is both the source and the abyss into which Job fell in his affliction.

"Job and the Tragedy of Divine Love" in The Epic Cosmos