Bruce,
Thank you for your response. I will try to respond and clarify what is being said.
you said;Paedobaptists (at least the confessional kind, who hold to Reformed theology) do not teach their baptized children: "You are united to Christ." This is a ridiculous fiction, a slander, and it would be better for credobaptists to figure out what Reformed paedobaptists actually believe before bandying this kind of thing about.
I agree Bruce. Any reformed believer would be in error if that is what they taught their children. If pressed I do not think they would agree to a teaching that would declare this.
As you state later in the post,when messages are preached concerning salvation,and calling people to repentance and faith their is generally a clearer note of gospel truth sounded.
Bruce, it is not my intention to come across as hostile to any brother in Christ. I am seeking clarification on things that I have heard and read. [ I will seek to do a better job of listing either the sermons in question, or what I am reading. I listen to many sermons when I am driving, so what I will do is catalog the questions when I get home.]
I am trying to "figure out" the padeo position,and this is where I am hearing contradictory statements. Sometimes I am hearing a blending of the teaching of the visible and invisible church when the sign of the covenant is being discussed. As if they are one and the same.
Whether or not the given speaker is not making the necessary distinction,or just assuming that the hearer will automatically infer the proper distinction, I am not certain.
It is possible that I have mis-understood as I have listened. I hope so.
You say:It is the most silly, preposterous notion in the history of the church to say that a baptist church has a better chance of having a regenerate membership than a non-baptist church, based on nothing but their style and practice of baptism. Look around you! Where is the evidence for the claim that baptism-by-profession protects the church from an unregenerate membership?
Bruce, I do not think it is silly or preposterous to believe that by believer's baptism we have less chance of having regenrate church membership. You yourself will baptize someone upon profession. I do not think I made any claim of "protecting " the church from unregenerate professors, as I cited the warning given in Jude 11-13 as an example of the fact that the unregenerate come among us.
I found it very helpful when you took the time to explain in your post how a believing parent would instruct His child on His need to trust the Lord and His word. I think that this is perhaps where the most agreement would come in this area of the faith.
I have always viewed my children as sinners in need of the Saviour. My wife and I have sought to do all we could in obeying what we see in the scriptures. We rest in the fact that the promise extends to our children, if they also believe. And yet, because we desire the salvation of all of our children we have resisted pushing or forcing an "external obedience" and an "external profession " at an early age.
Because our children can sit quietly during a service,and will not deny major areas of doctrinal truth, does not necessarily translate to a living, vital, fruit of the Spirit expressed in the life faith. Several of my children have expressed a time where they mentally ageed with scriptural truths, but later on they came to know the work of the Spirit in their lives.
Bruce, in your ministry in Ohio hae you also seen this? Are we agreed that it is at this time that they are born again?
I have to go to work now so I will get back to it later on. I am trying to get a more accurate understanding of this position,and understanding more of God's truth. That is why I am asking the questions. Thank you for taking the time to help me.
