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Originally Posted by SemperFideles  I do understand you and I disagree. Paul didn't say that circumcision was a sign just to Abraham. And, again, it would not fit the context of Romans 4 to introduce a sign that was only spiritual to Abraham but then physical to everyone else after him. It also doesn't do justice either to the nature of Covenants made. It's like saying that the Covenant of Works meant one thing to Adam but didn't mean the same thing to us.
I'm not trying to be pugilistic for the sake of it but we profoundly disagree on this point on the nature of the sign. Remember, Paul has every right to provide the fullest revelation of what a thing signified. You cannot go back to earlier passages in the OT and try to use that as a basis to de-Spiritualize the Gospel significance of the sign. Even if you do, the OT is pregnant with the idea that circumcision is not fundamentally something that is primarily physical and National. |
First off I do believe the sign was spiritual to others beside Abraham. It wasn't for everyone who was descended from Abraham. I also believe the COW is found in Abraham as there is a curse in it of being cut off. That is different for the New Covenant Member according to Jeremiah 31. The Everlasting Covenant promised in Isaac is the Covenant of Grace. The signification of righteousness passes on to one and not to the other.
And I don't think you are being pugilistic. I think we are discussing this so we can understand each other. Note that Romans 4 speaks of those who are not of the circumcision who will be and are children of Abraham. The significance moves to what justifies... faith. That is what Romans 4 is discussing. Nothing more and nothing less.
Plus I don't see Romans 4 being a complete exegesis of what circumcision was. There is no mention of those who would be cut off if they did not receive this sign of the Covenant of Circumcision who where his decendants.