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toddpedlar · #5 (**permalink**) 06-22-2007, 04:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turmeric

I have a question for Dr. Clark;
How is the Reformed view of the visible/invisible church distinct from Federal Vision? I know it is different, but when I try to explain the difference, it doesn't sound very different, so I'm reduced to stating the fact of God's imputation of Christ's righteousness, but then someone says something about faith without works being dead, and when I agree it sounds like I'm contradicting myself. Guess I'm not a good debater, but I think I don't understand the differences enough to explain it well.

I know it was for Dr. Clark, but let me offer a brief word. The FV proponents view the church today as unified - that is, there is only one church, no visible/invisible distinction at all. Today those who are baptized members of the church are the elect of God. If they persevere, then they will be "finally justified". If they don't, then, despite the fact that they were, in their view, truly united to Christ, sharing in all his benefits with every other baptized member, they truly apostatize - go from a state of salvation to a state of damnation; from election to 'un-election'; from justified to unjustified. The FV see only one church - visible/invisible/Body of Christ, all in one - at any one time.

Traditional Reformed doctrine holds that the visible expression of the church is not one-to-one with the invisible, or true church. There are people in the church today who are NOT united to Christ, though they be baptized, professing church-going members. They would be the tares of the well-known parable. In traditional Reformed doctrine, there is a CLEAR distinction between those who participate in all Christ's benefits, being truly united to Him, and those who are only outward participants in the covenant.

Stark contrast, and one with HUGE implications as to how you deal with the church as a leader.

OK, Scott. Now you can answer your own question

Todd