I'm sorry Mark, I really messed up your thread. You might want to start it again. I decided to house clean in the other thread because I didn't want a debate there.
I moved Dieter and Michael's post here because they weren't debating with each other - they were in agreement. They did post some scripture and I thought they might direct you to some online resources. However, in the move I pushed your post to the bottom and couldn't undo it. I am sorry. Given the benefit of hindsight I should have left everything alone.
So OK guys, rock on, oops, I mean carry on.
