03-17-2007, 07:53 PM
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 | Puritanboard Senior | | Join Date: Apr 2005 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SemperFideles  Jason,
Like Richard, your tact attempts to avert direct problems with your own theology. Remember, this thread is about what Richard has positively put forward. What he prefers to do is skate around direct contradictions. "Hey, look at the Pony!" Is your answer no more than "I'm all dorked up but so are you!"
I've taken up the challenge of defending my view and I answer questions directly because I'm a man and that's what men do. Have the courage to defend your view against a direct attack. Your weak attempt doesn't impress. | Semper, like you wrote this is Richard's thread, I'm not bound as Richard maybe to defend the op. Keeping in mind that what you posted as a defence is up for criticism just as what RJS posted was up for critique by you. I understand if you don’t want to talk about the contradictions in your own defence, but it’s not my op.
Here’s a little something to think about : Quote:
Don't know who you're quoting but it seems a poor argument. Acknowledge the words "believe" "appears" and "seems" and his point seems to fall apart. Why post stuff like this?
It’s not hard to defend believer’s baptism even if occasional errors happen –that’s what church discipline is for. And baptism isn’t sign of the New Covenant for believers –that’s the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Baptism is a church ordinance consequent to the New Birth and regeneration. It neither confers nor confirms anything, it only “states”.
If congregations are admitting unbelievers then they are not defending the church. Easy believism, unbiblically low standards, poor doctrinal understanding, inadequate ecclesiology, poor leaders, greed for numbers, unqualified elders and so on will all give rise to a church that deserves to have its lampstand taken away. I'm not going to defend any of that.
What I would defend is independent baptist church practice. Mature Christians in leadership, seeking to honour God and obey his statutes will operate the church along the NT pattern church lines to the best of their understanding.
Independent Local churches are not that easy to join! There are no unscriptural barriers, but newcomers have to be known before they can become members. Admitting members from other churches using the Letter of Introduction system or "references" has been the downfall of many congregations. Better to require 6 months attendance at all meetings before membership can be discussed. Flexibility is permissible of course, but this would be the principle. In 6 months observation and discussion and fellowship, true colours can show reasonably clearly. And issues arising can be further discussed.
Baptism follows much the same process. Sometimes a year or three can pass when there is doubt. (Flexibility again).
To put it clearly if bluntly, If someone looks like a duck, walks like a duck, talks like a duck, lives like a duck, tells you they are a duck and they want to be a better duck while reading about ducks, studying duck, wanting to be with ducks and telling all their friends they should be ducks….well, you get the picture. Don’t you think we can take the scriptures at their word and recognise a “credible profession of faith”. I do.
What if….
Yes, there are what ifs.
What if a person is self-deluded? Perhaps a “stony ground” hearer who after a time falls right away from belief, or an enthusiast caught up in the moment without understanding. Well, if they have been baptised, their baptism was done in good faith and an error here that has to be addressed is not the unforgivable sin. Why make a huge deal of it? Explain to the church and get on with life –the individual is out of membership until they can credibly profess their belief.
What if a person is deliberately deceptive? (Why this should be beats me). Elders weren’t born again yesterday (1 Tim 3.6) – their judgement is one of the qualities we look for in choosing them.
When someone deserts their Christian walk then church discipline comes to bear. Remember that there are real excommunication sins and issues for the church. WE have to take these seriously.
So the fact that errors might occur, for whatever reason, doesn’t invalidate the aim to baptise believers only. How the paedobaptist camp reconcile their practice with scripture is really behond me.
| I’m not sure what the posturing is about, “I’m a man that’s what men do,” because it’s really no different then "Hey, look at the Pony!" You machismo doesn’t impress me either.
Peace,
j
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