Quote:
Originally posted by WrittenFromUtopia
I alluded to this dilemma in a previous thread.
I have 2 roommates and another aquaintance who are attending (they don't have membership) an independent calvinistic Baptist gathering outside of Louisville. The gathering was began by a man (approx. 27 years old I believe) who has never completed Seminary and has never been ordained by any Ecclesiastical body (not even an individual church, as far as I know, not that this would make any difference).
This gathering, as far as I'm concerned, is not a real church because:
1. No lawfully ordained ministers to oversight the congregation, administer the sacraments, etc.
2. No accountability to any other church or body of belielvers.
3. No membership system of any kind.
4. No confession of faith or statement of beliefs.
I realize some of us on here may disagree with these qualms, but even most of the Baptists and Baptist ministers on this board are at least part of a federation or denomination of believers of like mind, confess their faith, and have been - for those who are ministers, such as Pastor Way? - been ordained by a valid Ecclesiastical body, I would assume and hope.
Regardless, for those who understand the Jus Divinum of Christ's Church and the importance of at least a semblance of Biblical polity, how do I approach this situation both respectfully and Biblically?
Do I approach my friends, who love this church and their 'pastor,' with my concerns? What do I tell them?
Are my concerns valid? Should this gathering be considered a valid Church?
 
[Edited on 10-2-2005 by WrittenFromUtopia]
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Gabriel,
I have a problem with your post on a number of fronts.
1. Have you ever been to the church? Do you know this information first-hand?
2. I am not sure that you understand Baptist ecclesiology. Baptist churches are fiercely independent (I alluded to this in another thread). Some are members of like-minded organizations (SBC, CBA, ABA, GARB etc.), many are not.
3. Lawfully ordained by who? Baptist churches commonly ordain their own. I know this may cause a Presbyterians skin to crawl, but those are the facts.
4. Accountability is usually within the church. Many Baptist church officers answer to each other and to the church body as a whole. Many of the more common Baptist associations do not excercise authority over individual churches. As such, the accountability of associations is limited.
5. You state there is no membership system of any kind. Do you know this for a fact? Have you been there? Have you read any writings from the pastor?
6. You also say there is no confession of faith or statement of beliefs. Again...do you know this for a fact?
Now...this being said...I am not defending this supposed church. There are many quacks in the world and I would not be shocked if a new self-appointed prophet appeared on the scene. My counsel is to know these things for certain before accusing. We are all capable of being wrong (I am an expert in that area). If you knew these things for a fact, then I would certainly speak with your roomies and share with them your concern based on scripture.